Prodigy chooses HBCU over Harvard, Yale

tokenadult · July 4, 2008, 9:00pm

Examples, please?

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 1:20am

Tokenadult:
Example:
“Although my S did not go off to college at 14, he took AP classes in middle school and college classes in 9th grade.” (From Marite’s post above.)

There are many programs and opportunities available to bright children that have been mentioned in various CC forums in the past, which do not involve them going to college or graduate school in a location far away from parents at age 14 years old, which I pesonally think is inappropriate for the vast majority, if not all, young teenagers.

Are we just going to keep pushing these kids until they drop and get burned out by age 18? What about age-appropriate sports and peer groups? What about giggling and laughing with other 14 year-olds? Isn’t there more for these poor kids than just being “tolerated” or parented by random graduate students who may take an interest? How about the pedophiles who may frequent campuses looking for vulnerable teens? Would it be safe for young teenage girls who often get raped or seduced and impregnated by older men?(A large proportion of teen pregnancies occur this way.) Or young gay teens searching for an identity with peers? All of these teens would be very vulnerable in a group of 18-25 year olds.

I think it is a horrible idea to take a child away from a peer group and put him or her where the student is merely “tolerated”. Just because a few have been socially ackward but survived is not a justification for it. Why rob these children of their childhoods?

marite · July 5, 2008, 7:57am

Swatparent:

Eventually, my S did have to graduate early from high school. He was also extremely lucky as a middle schooler and as a high schooler in being able to access advanced classes. If his schools had not been situated close to one another, if we had lived in another locality, he would not have been able to take the advanced classes he did. As well, if the policies at each of his schools had been different, he might have been treated differently and we would have had to make different decisions.
Finally, my S is not Lazybum’s child or the student featured in the article. I simply do not know how he would compare with Lazybum’s child. His level of advance and his needs are his, not anyone else’s. For this reason, I do not think it is a good idea to use his case as the illustration of what must be done with advanced students. He was lucky, he could have been luckier and even more accommodated than he was (and thus gone to college even earlier than he did).

alansda · July 5, 2008, 9:52am

I giggled when I read this

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 11:26am

“Finally, my S is not Lazybum’s child or the student featured in the article. I simply do not know how he would compare with Lazybum’s child. His level of advance and his needs are his, not anyone else’s. For this reason, I do not think it is a good idea to use his case as the illustration of what must be done with advanced students. He was lucky, he could have been luckier and even more accommodated than he was (and thus gone to college even earlier than he did).”

Which student are you speaking of that should not be used as an example? There are 3 specific students mentioned in this thread.

I don’t think that going to college “even earlier” is an “accomodation.” An “accomodation” is the school system finding a way to challenge bright students, not forcing them to leave an appropriate peer group to be with students far older than them.

Going to college or graduate school and living on campus far from home at age 14 impedes appropriate dating, maturing physically in a like peer group (with the normal variations), and most certainly age-appropriate sports. For instance the expected times in sports are much faster in college sports vs HS track and swimming, in general. A 14 year old could not realistically participate in college sports (except MAYBE LeBron James but even that would be a push at age 14 at top NCAA colleges.)

broetchen · July 5, 2008, 11:36am

I think these situations always come back to trusting parents to decide what is best for THEIR child. Every situation has its pros and cons, which are obvious to concerned parents. Just because someone doesn’t think they would make that choice for their child, doesn’t mean it is wrong for someone else’s.

marite · July 5, 2008, 11:45am

The “student featured in the article” is the 14 year old going to an HBCU.

Precisely. If my S had received the appropriate accommodations earlier (which he did not partly because the teachers were ideologically opposed to it, incompetent to deal with his being advanced, overworked and thus unable to provide the necessary accommodations) he might have been able to graduate one year earlier. On the other end of the spectrum, if the college had not been next door, and profs willing to let him audit real courses for free, he would not have stayed in high school. Our son’s trajectory was unique to his needs and his location.

Again, each person is different. Neither my Ss (one of which went to college at the normal age) was interested in sports or dated/have been dating in college. So those issues were irrelevant to them. They are not unathletic; but they are not interested in group sports where physical development is important.

Again, there is little evidence that students are “pushed” to graduate early, although there is plenty of evidence that students are pushed into taking courses that are too advanced for them (as in APs). But there is lot of evidence that advanced kids are not appropriately accommodated in their high schools and could attend college earlier. The University of Washington has a program wherein 13-year olds are admitted. They must live at home the first year, but I believe they become regular college students in their second year, i.e. as 14-year olds. Had we lived in Seattle, we would certainly have considered that option for our S.

broetchen · July 5, 2008, 11:49am

Know several kids, who are part of this program. Works great for them, they have their own circle, mentors, etc. within the U.

LazyBum201 · July 5, 2008, 12:38pm

dis-grace, thanks for the kind response. Your name, though I like it as it’s a clever name, doesn’t seem to fit someone so nice.

Swat, I am again going to nicely ask that you be polite in your conversation. Calling anyone on the board “crazy and misguided” and claiming their child, whom you have never even met, was labeled “a 14 year-old freak” (which to date, you have been the only one to so label to my knowledge) is rude and this is the last time I will kindly ask you to be mannerly rather than report you to the moderators and ask for some assistance as I’d hate to see this board become a place where insults can be thrown around in such a manner. I debated merely ignoring you, but feel “ignore” comes from “ignorance” and so am going to again try to merely shed some light on your commentary.

Please note the word “most” there. We are in agreement here. Most 14-year-olds need special treatment when living away from home. Our son is not “most” of whatever age of child he has been since birth (actually before birth, but that’s another story). Most children do not roll over from their stomachs to their backs and vice versa as newborns (“most” don’t do that till they are 19 weeks or older of age, and I am glad our son’s pediatrician didn’t assume our son doing that was due to us “pushing” him to roll over like a dog). Most children do not score a mental age in the 20’s at age 7 nor do they score post high school level across the board on academic testing at age 7 despite not having been given any formal education past the 4th grade level (he was however, on his own, studying calculus at age 7, having used his Multiple Sclerosis read-a-thon fundraising first prize book certificate to purchase the calculus book as his parents felt he didn’t need to be studying calculus at age 7). Most children do not take the SAT at age 8 (he wanted to take it at 7, when the psychologist urged us to have him take it, but again we saw no reason for having him take it till he was 8 and wanted to take a Johns Hopkins CTY mechanical engineering course for college credit when he was 8) and win awards for both their verbal and math scores (and this with no test prep at all other than taking the written practice test that came with the application for the SAT and one computerized practice test so he would know what a bubble test was like as he had not had to take any paper bubble tests before) and indeed have a math score higher than about 9 out of 10 college bound high school seniors. Most children don’t take a GRE years before they become a teen and still earn a score that correlates to a gifted adult score. Most children also wouldn’t do as our son did in scoring as a college educated adult at age 8 on the Defining Issues Test (the closest I’ve seen to a test of “emotional maturity”, it tests moral reasoning; a psychologist gave this test to our son and my husband and myself; while our son scored lower than I did, as I scored as a highly gifted college educated adult, our son did score higher than his college educated father). Most children who are 14 haven’t traveled to over 30 countries, traveled overnight to another state for business on their own, given presentations with major award (Nobel, Pulitzer, Emmy, Grammy, you name it) winners and billionaires, had tech jobs at multiple companies all with rave reviews from the CEOs and co-workers, owned their own businesses (plural, as our son had a tech company and an art business at the same time) and had face-to-face experiences with customers and clients, or many other experiences our son had at age 14. Truthfully, he’d been around (not in a sexual sense, but a social and work and academic sense) more than most adults of any age.

This again has a bad assumption - that our son was developmentally 14 at the chronological age of 14. He was not. He was in the second stage of puberty his 10 year physical exam and had reached his adult height at 13, so physically, he was not “developmentally 14” at 14. Intellectually, he was clearly (to anyone who spoke with him) at an adult level before he hit double digits in age (some would put it at more like age 5, but that is debatable where before age 10 doesn’t seem it to me). Emotionally, he seemed an adult in many (though not all, and frankly, most adults aren’t even at an adult level in ALL ways at any given time in life; for example, many adults are rude to others online, which is not exactly acting “maturely”) ways by age 6. When he was a little kid in a car seat coming back from a group music lesson where he was upset that he had to use color the last ten minutes of class rather than learn music as he had in the earlier age’s 10-minute shorter class (he noted that he was going there to learn music, not to learn how to use crayons, which he already had a good grasp on) and I said, “Dissatisfaction is a good thing as without it, there would be no progress,” he quickly shot back, “You can’t use that argument as if everyone were happy, there would be no need for progress, now would there be?” And at 7, when he heard me being upset at dinner over someone thought my 2-year-older husband was younger than I, he gave me some of the best advice I’ve ever received in my life: “Look, the way I see it, you can choose to see this as a compliment to Dad, that he looks younger than he is, or an insult to yourself that you look older than you are, and whenever you can choose to see something as either a compliment or an insult, it would be wise to choose to see it as a compliment.”

Again, I think the greater risk could be to insist the child have no outlet socially with people his intellectual age, and there is some research to support my view on this that I will try to get you another time as I am pressed to just respond to your many points before I have to leave the computer here. I have yet to see any area where our son has “missed out” due to the paths he has chosen for himself so far. When he was 8 and accepted to college, I cautioned him that he would have trouble finding dates when he was 16 if he was in graduate school then, and he responded, “I’ll be going to graduate school to learn, not to find a spouse or date.” I told him he would likely change his mind by age 16. However, my concerns were completely unwarranted. He has had dates for whatever he’s wanted (Intel Science Talent Search dinner banquets, homecomings, the Grad Gala, dinner and movies out, boating, etc.), both younger and older girls and girls his same chronological age. He has always had friends his own age in addition to older friends, and so he has engaged in pillow fights at slumber parties and playing Apples to Apples and so on and still engages in such play with teens his age. It’s not like he is having a typical childhood, as he notes that’s not what he wants for himself, but he is enjoying the normal childhood activities. While he was in college and active in college activities (SGA, commuter association, philosophy club, crew team, etc.), he also was in a magic club giving performances with kids 6 to 17 years of age, in a handchime/handchoir group with kids around his age (he started at 6 when the minimum age was to be 10, but the director felt our son had talent and let him start early; by the time the choir director left town and the choir ceased to be, he was I think 12), and in other activities with kids around his age plus just played with kids his age without any structure involved.

Anyone may or may not commit suicide. And yes, college is challenging for many 18-year-olds, yet we don’t label any parent who lets such 18-year-olds go to college “crazy” for having done so even when they DO commit suicide unless there was a red flag flying for such a risk in advance (such as cutting oneself, as was the case for one MIT gal who lit herself on fire and died back in I think 2000). Our son had no risk factors - he appeared to all who knew him (not just we parents) to be an extremely well-adjusted person and still seems this way. This isn’t to say he always will be, as nobody can predict the future, but we can only make decisions based on what we’ve seen and learned to date.

I agree that there aren’t large enough studies yet of 14-year-olds who have lived at college on their own to make any judgment calls, which is why I don’t think anyone should be making any judgment calls at this point. By calling parents who allow 14-year-olds to live on campus, you are making a judgment call. However, parents still do have to make decisions, and being afraid to allow something based on what is typically done is a decision based in fear of the unknown, not the known. There was a time when blacks couldn’t ride in the same section of the bus as whites as many people didn’t feel it right, but I believe Rosa Parks was wise to “park” her behind where she did rather than allow her race to be considered “behind” the rest (on the bus or elsewhere). Just as people shouldn’t be deprived certain things due to race, neither should they be due to age alone if it simply doesn’t make sense to use age as a make-it or break-it factor. And I am obviously not alone in my belief here as our son’s mentors, MIT’s Dean of Graduate Students (at least at the time our son was admitted, as that man has since retired), his lab’s head and administrator, housing department staff, his housemasters, etc. all felt our son was ready for the opportunity that he was given to go there.

Again, you assume our son has no social support. His first July 4th at MIT (less than a month after he started living there), he attended parties at his grad dorm, the all female undergraduate dorm next-door (as a friend from his homeschool group years back had also just started there as a 16-year-old freshman), and a frat party (two people working for him in his lab were UROPs who lived at the frat and invited him to that party, steak dinners, etc. at their frat). He also has lots of support from people his own age off and on campus. He has a 15-year-old friend who attends his lab’s group meetings every week (even over the summer) and is being primed to be a future grad student in that lab. He has lots of other teen friends come visit him on campus and they do stuff around Boston. He also takes a commuter train 90 minutes south and north for various dances and other social events with high school students. Now it’s a little odd at times, like when a limo came to pick him up from a teen birthday slumber party at 9 AM for him to use 3D technology (like a hologram image at the other end) to take part in a conference in Italy that day, but the kids all enjoy our son’s company enough to keep inviting him to their parties.

We again agree. There is absolutely no need for us to take our son to other countries on vacation either, but we do it because he enjoys going and it seems safe enough to us, and that’s good enough reason for us. You feel it isn’t safe enough, and I understand that belief, but just don’t share it - I could change my mind in time, but so far, we simply have different beliefs here. If all we ever did is what needed to be done in life, we would never step foot in a whirlpool (well, unless for medical reasons, perhaps) or go to the movies or dine out or any of many other things most people do.

But what sense does it make to supplement rather than have the main meal the more healthy diet for the given individual? It is better to eat veggies and fruit than count on a vitamin pill and eat donuts and other such not as nutritious stuff all day with just one fruit at 3 PM each day (not that I didn’t pretty much grow up on the donut diet, mind you, but I also admit it wasn’t best, nor is our son’s nutrition diet the best - he grew up on Poptarts and Hot Pockets more than natural foods). Give the proper main meal and you don’t need to take the time to supplement - that time can be spent on other things (like playing Apples to Apples).

This is exactly what we feel we are doing. It would be to have forced him to stay out of graduate school till 20+ that would have been not giving proper support from what I can tell.

I’m not sure that “many” is the proper word for the above, but will grant “some” (and I am also not sure many isn’t the right word, for the record, but I just don’t know the numbers and from what I’ve observed so far in early to college kids, I would say over half have normal to superior social skills rather than poor ones). I know for our son, he has exceptional social skills as I have heard it from most everyone who knows him time and again and he gets nominated and elected to all kinds of things and wins service awards and has fellow grad school classmates writing to suggest that our son be an official TA in a class as he was more helpful than the official TAs (and when he was an official TA, never had any of the students guess he wasn’t their age or older; indeed, a nearly 24-year-old student was in disbelief when two months after the semester ended, he learned our son was younger than he).

Again, this makes a false assumption - that he has been pushed. Our son first asked to take college engineering and math classes when he was 6. My husband and I wouldn’t even entertain the request. When our son was tested by a psychologist at age 7, we were told even a top private high school would be inappropriate for our son and he should immediately take the SAT and apply to a 4-year-university, and we did at that point wonder if we were missing something and contemplated the suggestion, but again didn’t go that route. At age 8, our son applied to college (as in HE filled out the application himself) and was accepted one week after the application was mailed and could have started at age 8, but we again held him back till 9. He also wanted to start graduate school right out of college, and based on how well he did starting a year later, I have no doubt he could have done just fine had we allowed him to start a year sooner, but we asked that he just wait a year and he kindly did. Time and again, we have actually been on the side of having him wait rather than jumping in just when he felt HE was ready as WE were not yet ready, and he’s been extremely patient with us (another sign of his maturity, seems to me).

This is actually one of the cons of allowing a child to advance as anyone who hears of it is inclined to either assume the parents are smart or ask, “So which parent does he get this from, or are you both this way?” and friends who have known you for decades, long before you even married, say, “Told you that you are the smartest person I’ve ever known, so why does having your son be so smart surprise you?” and such. It’s all quite awkward and unpleasant, frankly, but again, I am not going to deprive our son from what he wants just to make it easier for me to socialize at parties.

And again, how many with kids in college at 14 had parents who insisted they be in college rather than kids who asked (some have perhaps even begged, but our son merely politely asked time and again; if he had begged, we’d have said he was too immature to go) and parents who gave in after much thought about the issue? I personally think it shows rather little sense to assume much about situations and people in which and in whom you have next to nothing or nothing to make the assumptions.

Yes, that comes across very clearly. ;)

I have said the same with all of our educational decisions starting with early college (homeschooling I have never had any doubts about from the start). And I was a bit put off the first time I heard our son called an experiment (actually only heard that once before now, and that was in response to how my brother felt over our son being homeschooled back when he was I think 5 and he felt we weren’t allowing our son to be in the real world, which is rather amusing to me), but quickly came to realize ALL children are experiments and ALL parents would be wise to understand that and no matter what choices they make (including traditional education at a traditional age), they won’t have results to make final conclusions with till the child is AT LEAST in their 30’s.

Someone else needs the computer now, so I’ll get to your other post when I can.

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 12:38pm

That U-Washington program than preserves the pere group concept. My guess is that there are staff at U-Washington who are knowledgable about the program and the students. I know of a similar program that keeps the age cohorts for 16-17 year olds, who are accepted early for college. They are kept together for certain classes and for socializing purposes.

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 12:53pm

“Someone else needs the computer now, so I’ll get to your other post when I can.”

Don’t bother, you obviously have all of the answers to having a most exceptional child, physically, emotionally, mentally and academically. I wish your family luck. I obviously approach life differently than you, and would never have a 14 year old child go to college or gradaute school without a defined peer group of a similar age. Even if he begged. I wonder if he has siblings, or if he is an only child(?)

“However, parents still do have to make decisions, and being afraid to allow something based on what is typically done is a decision based in fear of the unknown, not the known. There was a time when blacks couldn’t ride in the same section of the bus as whites as many people didn’t feel it right, but I believe Rosa Parks was wise to “park” her behind where she did rather than allow her race to be considered “behind” the rest (on the bus or elsewhere). Just as people shouldn’t be deprived certain things due to race, neither should they be due to age alone if it simply doesn’t make sense to use age as a make-it or break-it factor.”

With all due respect, I don’t think that your son’s struggles compare to Rosa Parks. Please keep it in perspective. No one was going to beat him or arrest him if he went to MIT. May Ms. Parks RIP.

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 1:05pm

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/nyregion/05models.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=models&st=nyt&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/nyregion/05models.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=models&st=nyt&oref=slogin</a>

The above article about young fashion models in NYC, and a 20 year-old who fell to her death recently, reminds me of this topic:

"Instead, they say, the biggest peril that afflicts foreign models in New York City is a far more ordinary one: loneliness.

“A lot of these girls are very young, they’re still learning English, and they’re expected to be on their own and grow up overnight, basically,” said Megan Walsh, a studio manager for the fashion photographer Craig McDean. “They’re not ready. I used to be a model scout, and that’s why I got out of it. One day it just hit me; I was like, ‘I can’t believe we’re taking these young girls from their small towns, be they in Ohio or Estonia. They’re not given a chance to be kids and grow up.’ ”

I personally would never underestimate the importance of just being a kid with other kids.

marite · July 5, 2008, 1:15pm

swatparent:

The model was living totally on her own in a strange country; she was not at all like a student. In fact, she was the same age as most college students, and not all 20-year olds are suicidal.

It’s absolutely fine that you would not want to send your child to college early. But why castigate others who do? Why declare that their child was "pushed?’ In most cases I know, including ours, the child is doing the pulling.

When my S was in 7th grade, it was suggested to us that he should skip high school altogether. The person who suggested it had spent his middle school years feeling a freak because of his advanced knowledge and interests. He said the first time he was truly happy was when he went to MIT at 15 and stopped feeling like an alien. He is now a famous prof at top university.

LazyBum201 · July 5, 2008, 1:26pm

Yes, I think older students in general have a higher maturity level and are thus better able to accept and even appreciate younger students who are academically (and often socially) in the right place with older students.

Neither can we say as he didn’t love there. He might once he’s 18 as that choice will be completely his and he will be of the typical age at that point to live in one, anyway.

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 1:47pm

“The model was living totally on her own in a strange country; she was not at all like a student. In fact, she was the same age as most college students, and not all 20-year olds are suicidal.”

The point of the article and other recent ones about this model’s death, is that these models are brought here during early to mid-teenaged years, not just from foreign countries but from small towns, etc all over the world, including the US. They are not allowed to have a full childhood, due to one talent or specifically, beauty. This often, according to these articles, leads to depression in this cohort.

"It’s absolutely fine that you would not want to send your child to college early. But why castigate others who do? Why declare that their child was "pushed?’ In most cases I know, including ours, the child is doing the pulling.

When my S was in 7th grade, it was suggested to us that he should skip high school altogether. The person who suggested it had spent his middle school years feeling a freak because of his advanced knowledge and interests. He said the first time he was truly happy was when he went to MIT at 15 and stopped feeling like an alien. He is now a famous prof at top university."

Why did you not have your child skip HS? I would be curious as to the reason.

I also don’t know how these programs handle sports. Such as in the U-Wash program mentioned above, do the students maintain ties to their home HS, so that they can do sports and other activities? I think that sports are very important for teens, academics are not everything. That is why homeschoolers fight so hard in many jurisdictions to have their children allowed to play sports in their district’s HSs.

swatparent · July 5, 2008, 1:55pm

“Although my S did not go off to college at 14, he took AP classes in middle school and college classes in 9th grade. The college students were far more tolerant of his presence in class than the high schoolers.”

So why did you not have him just skip middle school and go to HS and then skip HS and go to college at age 14? Could you have possibly felt that it was more developmentally appropriate for him to stay with his peers? It sounds as if a “good” college would have accepted him at 14?

LazyBum201 · July 5, 2008, 1:54pm

I’ve already addressed the “pushing” assumption from our own parental side, but should perhaps also mention the possibility that some such children will have mentors who have certain notions about where a child should be academically and could try to push. One of our son’s mentors wanted our son at MIT for undergraduate school (even paid for all three of us to come meet with undergraduate admissions, and we didn’t even realize till after we got there that MIT undergraduate admissions rarely meets with prospective students as they leave the interviews to alumni in whatever area of the country the student lives) and wanted him in graduate courses at MIT at 11 (indeed, we heard from another mentor that he wanted our son to simply ditch undergraduate school and go straight for the doctorate, but I have only heard this through the grapevine as he only told me he wanted our son there for graduate classes, but might have not said he wanted him there for more as I felt the idea of his needing graduate classes at 11 was already incorrect…being academically ready, sure, but not needing, and I felt his sticking where he was at that age made sense for a bunch of reasons I don’t have time to detail now as once again, I have someone waiting to use this computer).

Again, our son has had them. He’s not so much into things like football as racquetball (and my brother was on the tennis team not the football team even having gone to school at typical ages). And he has a gold medal from a college sport (crew), where most people who attend college at any age are never on any college sports teams at all.

He’s done plenty of laughing with kids his age all along. Our son is far from a solemn child or lonely child.

And again, he doesn’t appear to be merely tolerated as he is invited to parties at private homes of graduate students, frat houses, living community homes, teen homes, faculty homes, etc. when many others in the various groups are not invited (which can prove awkward, but our son handles it well by not advertising that he got invited when friends haven’t) and invited to join groups and so on. If he was merely being tolerated, he wouldn’t be invited to do things with people.

But let’s look at another angle - all the TEACHERS who merely tolerate students who are more knowledgeable than they are on what they are teaching as they don’t like being the less educated person and give the student a hard time for this (I’ve heard countless stories in this scenario from other families) rather than also being quite knowledgeable or more knowledgeable and excited to have the student in their class, no matter the age? Our son has had many professors ask our son to take their classes even with our son lacking the pre-reqs. (his first such class where he lacked the pre-reqs. was a pre-med bio class at the U with more students in Harvard’s Medical School freshman class that fall than any other college other than Harvard itself and with over 300 students enrolled in his section including a 26-year-old woman with a Ph.D. from Hopkins already, he still had a course score that was in the top 1% and also a score that wasn’t beat by anyone in the other section that fall that had another 200+ students registered for it) and even with our son not needing the course for any of his degrees (and for some, he turns down the offer to leave room for students who need the class, but for one in graduate school, he had the professor tell the lab administrator he simply MUST take his course, even if he didn’t need it for the master’s, and our son was “pushed” into taking it, though it wasn’t a stress for him and he did fine).

He’s not being parented by anyone but his parents that I can tell. The closest might be the lab administrator, who for the first two years, told us she’d let us know if he was growing his hair long or in some other way looking like he was going through possible personality changes that might be a red flag (many males at MIT have long hair and are fine, so it wouldn’t necessarily be a cause of alarm on its own) but she never felt any need to write us about anything unless we had contacted her first about something (which we only did over his working at the lab very late hours early on).

I’ve heard nothing of campuses being a frequent spot for pedophiles to look for teens, but saying they even were, our son doesn’t look like a young teen, or even a teen perhaps as he has passed for being in his 20’s since he was 13.

If we had a female child, we would not have allowed the same conditions of staying alone in a hotel in another state or staying on campus alone at 14, though again, I don’t say parents who have allowed such (I know of at least two who have) have made an error unless they also haven’t kept in touch with the child (as one did, and to tragic results).

I doubt people can be “made gay” by having peers who are gay search for identity with them, but even if they can, do you honestly belief it would not also ever happen in K-12 environments. Plenty of pre-school kids are molested by other kids as young as 3 in their own homes let alone at school, both with the same sex and the opposite sex.

Again, the above does not apply with our son.

And plenty have done more than “survived”. I know at least two who have won Field’s Medals (highest award for math) and two who have won MacArthur awards (the “genius award”) and one of those was living in the streets before starting college at age 12 (hardly a typical childhood). I think “typical childhoods” are highly overrated, frankly, and cultural and time based (long ago, people didn’t study just with age-mates, but a wide range of students in small school houses, and many never went to school at all; a lack of formal education never hurt Lincoln any that I can tell).

And again, I don’t feel our son has been robbed of a childhood but had a far better rounded childhood than most today receive. Thomas Edison was working on a train far from home as a young teen. Didn’t seem to hurt him. Ben Franklin moved away from home at 12 and was in other countries at a pretty young age, too, if I recall correctly, and again, it didn’t seem to harm him. It’s not like pedophiles didn’t exist back then.

Oh, and I also want to note that I don’t think “pushy parents” should have the bad name it does. Even though I am not comfortable with pushing and thus very quickly took our son out of piano lessons when he wasn’t game to practice lessons at home without someone prodding him, I suspect parents who push might be doing their children a service. My husband is glad to know how to play the piano and play it well, and though our son plays publicly despite the lack of formal training and was been asked to be a cruise pianist back when he was 14 and cruisers went to the cruise management and asked our son to replace their hired pianist, our son will never be a professional pianist and does regret that we didn’t push him to be able to play on a professional level. It’s not like we’ve done everything right, but we don’t have to do everything right, just like our son doesn’t have to do everything right. Good enough is by definition good enough.

tokenadult · July 5, 2008, 2:45pm

Again I ask for specifics. Where are the schools doing this, and how widely available are they?

marite · July 5, 2008, 2:47pm

Again, it depends on each person’s situation. It was possible to accommodate him so that he did not have to go to a college. But had we been in Seattle, I would have seriously looked into the possibility of his going into the Transition program at UWash.

My S wanted to stay with his friends in middle school, friends he had known since kindergarten (this is a k-8 school). By the time he was in high school, he was no longer taking classes with them, so friendships no longer were a reason for him to stay in high school. He knew from 9th grade that he wanted to graduate early.

I did not say that a “good” college would have necessarily been a good fit for my S. As I noted, living with graduate students was probably an ideal situation for Lazybum’s son. That is not an option available at every college, even the “best.”

It doesn’t matter that something is effective in 99% of the cases when you happen to be the 1% that is the exception. While MOST 14-year olds are better off with their age-mates, not ALL are. That is all that Lazybum and I have been trying to say.

tokenadult · July 5, 2008, 3:07pm

Hear. Hear. One size doesn’t fit all, and the biggest failing of the American school system is propagandizing the belief that one size should be the only choice in a free society.

Prodigy chooses HBCU over Harvard, Yale

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