<p>I think there is the perspective that kids who are prodigies should not be going through the emotional/social/psychological turmoils that most kids do when the enter young adult hood. The passage to financial and emotional independence is rough for everyone, and those academically and intellectually gifted are as prone as any to have problems in this route. That does not mean that going to college early causes these issues any more than it does for the typical 18 year old high school graduate. We should not have a double standard when dealing with these exceptional children.</p>
<p>However, sending a 9,10, 14, even 16 year old alone off to an environment where you know that every vice and all the contrabands are at arm’s length and the temptations to indulge are strong, is a whole different story. Such kids should have some additional safeguards and supervision. That a 10 year old is intellectually able to hand college level materials is one thing; to deal with the social interactions of kids 18-22, is a whole other thing.</p>
<p>In the '70s, my college took in a number of such gifted young kids, an experiment that they dropped, though individuals who are young but able can certainly apply and be assessed on an individual basis. The problems with those young kids in college were no worse than those of their peers who were of the typical age for college, but their youth made it more of an issue. There are legal ramifications for underage kids that are not present for those older. Ugly things like statutory rape, providing minors with contraband, and other issues arise that effect other students as well. Some of the young kids where not obviously younger looking than many who were 18+.<br>
Our alumni magazine featured these kids in an issue. They seem to be doing as well or better for the most part, than the regular college kids. Some were not doing as well. As a parent, my concern is not so much whether these kids are going to end up as adult superstars, but if the journey is the best way for them to have spent their time including their childhood and teen years. For many, the consensus seemed to be that it was.</p>
<p>I am close friends with a mom who sent her 13 year old to college. She went locally, and had like company as the school had such a program which worked well. She loved those 4 years and did well. She is now a very well balanced, delightful young adult, who is successful, but not stupendously so. Her mother says that there seem to be expectations from others that the young lady should be some sort of a super star, rather than someone who spend high school years doing college work. Simple as that, an alternate way to spend those 4 years. Mom things, and I concur that the time was well spent for her. If it were not, well, there are many other kids who have had bad high school and/or college years.</p>
<p>I hope you’re describing the model’s environment, where, I gather, heroin addiction, bad nutrition, as well as sexual exploitation are rampant, and not the typical college scene!:)</p>
<p>Each child is different, and that goes for “gifted” kids as well. Two kids who are intellectual equals can be very different in terms of self-reliance, emotional maturity and social skills. Parents can only be guided by their child as well as what is available out there. </p>
<p>I have indeed heard of students who were younger than the majority of their college peers and had emotional and social difficulties. But these difficulties show up early rather than in later years. </p>
<p>Hee, hee, Marite, no, I was describing a typical college campus. I don’t think it is a good idea to drop off a young kid in a dorm and let him deal with the social/emotional stuff that college entails. It is an individual cut off as to when a kid is old enough to do this, but I think a pre teen would not belong in the dorms. To take classes, is a whole other matter. I don’t think most colleges these days would want an much younger kid in their dorms because of the shenanigans that go on.</p>
<p>Of course, it depends on the college. For example, S1 was in dorms that had RAs. These were just upperclass-men. S2 is in a House where the “tutors” are advanced graduate students, there is as well a Senior Tutor who is usually a lecturer and a Master who is a full professor. I’d feel far more comfortable handling a very young student over to the latter college than the former. In fact, I would not want to send my child to live in S1’s type of housing situation. But I would have felt comfortable handing S over to graduate students and faculty members who would be quite happy to pay extra attention to students who are different. </p>
<p>I actually feel that the students who are most vulnerable to being led astray are not the very young–they are simply not interested-- but those who are closer in age to the regular college students because they think they can and want to emulate them. I don’t have stats to back me up, just a hunch. </p>
<p>I believe that the Transition Program at UW only accepts 13+. know someone whose parents felt he was not ready for college at 13. They made him wait until he was 15. But by then, he had learned so much more that he zipped through U of Chicago in two years. To this day, he regrets not having spent all four years at the U (and he is in his 70s!).</p>
<p>Not a problem about kids going to college however young. But to send kids to a residential situation when they are too young can be a problem. Again this is not something that I raise just for gifted students but for ANY kids. Social and emotional maturity is not necessarily linked to intellectual maturity. Kids at the younger ages should have more supervision for their own protection, and for the protection of those other students who may not be aware or care that there are young kids aboard. I know at my college this was the case, and even the younger ones of the bunch were invited to partake in things that were too old for them. The answer might be a guardian of sorts that can keep an eye on the kid in terms of social life. I say this because there rules for my kids’ social lives at those ages, that gradually get loosened as they get older. In some ways they were less vulnerable for vices at the younger ages, but then I was more responsible for protecting them at those younger ages. My 16 year old who looked 21 at that age was more at risk then, than he was at 13 when he still looked like a pre teen. And yet he had more freedom at 16, because that is how the slow loosening of the rope goes. He is probably in more hot water now than he ever was, with the freedom he has. But I would not have wanted him able to get into that kind of trouble at age 13, and felt that I was responsible for his behavioral well being at that age. Has nothing to do with intellectual growth at all. Had he been up to college work at age 13, we would have come up with something in that regard without exposing him to college age vices.</p>
<p>I agree totally that emotional and social development are totally separate from intellectual development.
I personally don’t know if I would have wanted my kid to go to college at 13; I did not have to make that choice. </p>
<p>Again, not only does it depend largely on the kid but also on the situation. I would not send a young kid to a college with only upperclassmen as RAs, but I would feel better if there was a “dorm parent” who could keep an eye on my kid.
At Harvard, I know that house tutors are supposed to keep track of the personal lives of the students. If profs notice that students are having difficulties, they call/email the house tutors to find out what might be causing the problem (divorce in the family, illness, even breakups with bf or gf, or some personality quirk) and try to get help for the student. Not that I suggest a 13 year old would be comfortable at Harvard. But each college works differently. Some have far more nurturing environments than others and are thus better suited than others to cope with students who are different. Age is only one source of difference; there are others as well.</p>
<p>You are right, Marite. I do not know if the house tutors can monitor a student’s social life and whether Harvard would let a 13 year old in the dorms as a regular student. I would be reluctant to make that decision if it were my call. Just too much risk, and 13 is still a child covered by child protection laws. This is not even as a parent but as an administrator or if I were a resident advisor or house tutor. Possibly such a child can board with a faculty member or graduate student family who will be responsible for his out of school comings and goings.</p>
<p>But there are a number of college courses available for younger students on a local basis, and that is probably the way to go for kids who are not happy at their highschool and no longer getting any challenge from the academics there. Like home schooled kids, that does not mean they are excluded from the social scene in their communities. They just go elsewhere to school just as private school kids or home school kids or alternate school kids do. Not sure why people are so up in arms about kids who are academically ready going to college classes. Makes sense to me.</p>
<p>“Hee, hee, Marite, no, I was describing a typical college campus. I don’t think it is a good idea to drop off a young kid in a dorm and let him deal with the social/emotional stuff that college entails. It is an individual cut off as to when a kid is old enough to do this, but I think a pre teen would not belong in the dorms. To take classes, is a whole other matter. I don’t think most colleges these days would want an much younger kid in their dorms because of the shenanigans that go on.”</p>
<p>I wonder if colleges have to sign a waiver, or if parents do, in regards to anything that may occur to an underage child in a dorm? Maybe an older person would only go through the justice system per statuatory rape? Many colleges also have internal systems that address this issue, as well.
I wonder if the college is obligated or is barred from revealing information to a parent about a minor? I also wonder why a college would want this headache when there are so many 18 year olds clamoring to go?</p>
<p>As to RAs, I know that a friend of mine was distraught when the freshman’s RA decided to seduce the younger student, as there had been trust placed in the RA about a troublesome situation. Apparently, it’s all OK by the university, since they were both 18 or above. If a child is 14, then I assume it would be a different story. Hopefully, RAs would be told this.</p>
<p>Another aspect of going to graduate school so early is missing out on a liberal arts undergraduate education. My Swat student certainly could have rushed through a school having so many AP credits, but we place a very high value on liberal arts and a well-rounded education. The philosophy of many students at Swathmore is that grad school can wait, and a large number take off some years and work prior to grad school. They want to experience life and often have a goal to do community work and work prior to specializing at the young age of 22!</p>
<p>Obviously the poster whose child went to grad school at 14 thinks the specializing was necessary/needed at that point. I understand this, and don’t need him or her to reply directly about this to me. He probably got the liberal arts education in grade school, since he was zipping along and visited 30 countries.</p>
<p>“Not sure why people are so up in arms about kids who are academically ready going to college classes. Makes sense to me.”</p>
<p>This is not my issue. I think that taking local college courses is great, and my children did this. But I would never send a 14 year old off to live in a dorm with students over the age of 18. There is way too much risk, and I personally think it’s a stupid idea. That’s my opinion.</p>
<p>I disagree with all these “loneliness” issues being raised… I am a 14-year-old and a senior at high school and feel perfectly comfortable and ready to go to college on the opposite coast from my parents in September 2009.</p>
<p>Don’t know how colleges deal with underage kids. They do not blink an eye about taking kids a year early and some of those kids are still another year younger which could make them easily as young as 16 which is still not legally an adult. Heck, I wasn’t 18 when I went to college though turned 18 shortly thereafter. I don’t know what the cut offs are in terms of sticking kids into a dorm. Or if there are any such cut offs. Or if extremely young age is taken into account when assessing an app. I have been told that you do not get any points for being younger than the traditional age, but I don’t know whether colleges have a cut off age for younger or older students in the dorms. That too can pose some issue, come to think of it. How about assigning a 50 something year old room mate to a a typical college student?</p>
<p>Sishu7, it is not the loneliness that I would worry about. The fact is there are parental responsibilities to a 14 year old that do not exist for older kids. You are not legally an adult and that can pose problems if trouble occurs. Trouble not just for you but for other kids who may not know you are only 14. I would not want to be responsible for a 14 year old in a college dormitory, I can tell you that.</p>
<p>I think that, in most cases, families try to take advantage of local resources. Some are better able to do so than others. It depends on so many factors, such as distance from a local community college or university, willingness of the college to allow the students to take courses; parental ability to play chauffeur, etc… To give one example, the Harvard Extension School has only introductory physics, though it has a large selection of biology courses. The math courses are also fairly limited. Students who want to take more advanced courses in math or physics must audit the daytime college courses. Permission is at the discretion of individual instructors. For advanced suburban kids, leaving their high school in order to take one or two advanced courses at Harvard College must be enormously disruptive.
When my S did some weekend program at MIT while in middle school, I was astounded to find that some families had traveled from out-of state so that their child could attend. At a session, some parents had tears in their eyes as they recounted the difficulties they had in finding educational accommodations for their children. It was quite an eye-opener.</p>
<p>EDIT: I don’t think that someone going to grad school at an early age necessarily missed on a liberal arts education. It depends where the student goes for undergraduate.
I went off to college at 17. I was in a different country with a totally different university system, and spoke English badly. I was homesick the first semester and often took out the return portion of my air ticket and wondered if I should just go home. The second semester went better. I made friends, began to understand the weird academic system. At the end of the school year, I returned to France, had a grand reunion with my family. At the end of summer, I happily returned to my college.</p>
<p>Marite, where I live, there a many colleges. I think that they would love to have high testing kids of whatever age take courses there. As for the more selective schools, if age is not a factor for admissions, and the kids have to enter the applicant pool like everyone else, it is a tough, tough admit at any age. Some of the parents I knew who had kids in college programs did not want their kids at these local school where they could gain admittance. It was top dog school or not at all, and it was difficult to get into a school of MIT’s calibre. I know around here there are many, many enrichment programs for gifted youths, and if they want to go to some of the colleges, that could be arranged. Where there could be some problems, strangely enough is some of the community colleges where they do have minimum age requirements. I found this out accidently when I wanted to sign up my oldest for a class that fit him to the T, one summer. They would not accept his app for even one evening class because he was under age. Do not remember what their min age was. But I have heard this several times with families trying to get kids into some colleges courses. But the private schools seem to have no such reluctance if the kids have the numbers.</p>
<p>Again, it depends totally on where one lives.<br>
The families I met at the MIT special program came from all over New England and beyond. Interestingly, for many families in the greater Boston area, the Harvard Extension School is far easier to get to than the local community college. But the range of courses it offers in certain subjects can be limited. </p>
<p>You are right that top schools don’t make allowances for younger students at admission time. In fact, the reverse is true. If there is the least possibility that the student could build a stronger profile by staying another year in high school, the admission committee will not admit that student. That was what I was told by an admission officer.</p>
<p>I personally don’t like the idea of young students in college, partly because I enjoy having my own children around as long as possible. But I can see that for certain students, going off to college may be the best solution–not ideal. Just the best available.</p>
<p>Agree, Marite. I know a young man who left high school at age 15 because he was just down right miserable there in addition to being unchallenged. He enrolled at a local school and was much, much happier there. But part of the issues he had were social in high school, and had he lived in the dorms and tried to socialize on par with the college kids, it could have been problematic as well as the stakes can be much higher. In high school the social interaction are in the classrooms, halls, lobbies, lunch rooms and a kids who is viewed as odd can be victimized cruelly. This does not happen as much in college. He met kids like himself, some only a little older than he was, and still socialized with some of his friends from highschool and certainly from some of the clubs he was in. He was the envy of his friends, many of whom were not happy with the immaturity of high school kids and the mean spiritedness that can come from it.</p>
<p>“EDIT: I don’t think that someone going to grad school at an early age necessarily missed on a liberal arts education. It depends where the student goes for undergraduate.”</p>
<p>If you start graduate school at 14, then undergraduate began at 10. I think that understanding and appreciating many of the courses at Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, etc require more maturity than a 10 year has, or even an 11 year old.</p>
<p>“He met kids like himself, some only a little older than he was, and still socialized with some of his friends from highschool and certainly from some of the clubs he was in.”</p>
<p>I think the key words here are that he could still be part of clubs in HS. I don’t see that sports are too much mentioned here. Going to college at age 14 years cuts out HS sports, which for a lot of bright kids is very important.</p>
<p>Which 14 year old are you talking about?<br>
If it’s Lazybum’s son, he went to MIT as an undergraduate but got to live with graduate students.
As for understanding literature, etc… it depends on the kid. I tend to agree with you in general, but when we get to 10 year olds in college, we’re talking totally exceptional individuals.<br>
With asynchronous development, one has to choose in which way one should be out of sync: intellectually or developmentally. Some prefer to be in sync intellectually.
As for sports, again, neither my S have been in the least interested in school sports. They get their exercise differently.</p>
<p>Can I repeat? It depends on each individual student and on each situation?</p>
<p>So mine went off to college at 16, having already gathered 66 credits at local colleges including Evergreen (where most of her classmates were well into their 20s). She never set foot in a high school classroom. She threw all the credits away, and started again, and averaged 21 credits per semester (the college put its foot down when she tried to take 25). Double-majored, honors thesis in one, and Latin Honors distribution outside of her majors as well. Would have sent her away a year earlier to selected places where we had friends (i.e. Earlham), but it didn’t have the classes she wanted. There were no issues in admission. </p>
<p>We had no “maturity” issues. Following her working with me following the tsunami (including digging out and cremating bodies) the winter break of her first year, she went back, traveling by herself in Cambodia, Thailand, and India. There were no “issues” related to her age. Now she’s headed off the graduate school before she can legally drink, and most of her entering colleagues already have M.A.'s</p>
<p>I believe, like Leon Botstein, the President of Bard, that the average student is intellectually prepared for college at 14-15, and perhaps more so than they are at 17-18, after four years of high school miseducation. As to the maturity issues, you just have to know your own kid (I know more than a few who aren’t mature enough for college at 22, even though they’ve been there for four years.)</p>
<p>“whether Harvard would let a 13 year old in the dorms as a regular student.”</p>
<p>We have a friend who graduated last year. (I think he was just under 14 when he entered. Homeschooler - didn’t have a transcript either.)</p>