<p>This has been bugging me for a long time now so I’m finally asking. This is a post that appeared on FB today:</p>
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This recut of the Disney classic ‘Mary Poppins’ was made by myself (Christopher Rule), with assistance by Nick Eckert.
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<p>Is this not a case of people trying but failing to sound more educated by using “myself” where “me” is correct, or am I just wrong? I see this on websites, by the tv news anchor and in newspaper quotes. If I’m just wrong, I need to know now so I quit going crazy every time I see it.</p>
<p>I thought I was the only person bothered by this. It shows up in work email after email. There’s a little scream every time I read, “if you have any questions, please contact John or myself.”<br>
Take out “John”. Would you write, “…please contact myself”? I hope not. </p>
<p>In this case (and in many like it), the object pronoun “me” is both sufficient and correct. However, while most usage manuals will discourage the use of the reflexive pronoun “myself” in place of the personal pronouns “I” (subject) or “me” object, there is historical precedent for these usages. They are not incorrect, but they are much less favored.</p>
<p><a href=“Google Ngram Viewer”>Google Ngram Viewer; (Google Ngrams graph of “made by me” vs “made by myself”; note that to really be useful this should only graph instances of “made by myself” where “I” does not appear earlier in the sentence, but it does not.)</p>
<p>To my ear, the use of the reflexive in this particular example reads as a deliberate invocation of a more literary-sounding voice. It is not so much a case of “failing to sound more educated”, but one of “trying to sound more refined”. </p>
<p>I will grant you that depending on the expectations of the audience, the mere act of trying could be construed as a failure. The writer here is not wrong, but he is potentially out of tune.</p>
This is correct. There has been a trend in the last couple decades for authority figures (and anyone who wants to sound like one) to use these words incorrectly. People use “he and I” incorrectly also.</p>
<p>^^So was my original example right or wrong? I’ve always used zeebamom’s method: Take out the “John”. But in my example, there is nothing to take out. Just plain and simple: It was made by me.</p>
<p>It’s getting more and more common and I hate it.</p>
<p>It’s technically not entirely wrong, but most modern grammar manuals will say that it is. If you want to be in the mainstream of English usage, you’ll avoid non-reflexive uses of “myself”. I.e. “I myself made this.” and “I made this myself” are reflexive, where your example is not.</p>
<p>However, these fellows get a fair amount of respect and didn’t have a problem with the non-reflexive:</p>
<p>This is to seyn, myself have ben the whippe
Chaucer, Wife of Bath’s Prologue, 175</p>
<p>* Myself hath often heard them say-
When I have walked like a private man-
That Lucius’ banishment was wrongfully,*
Shakespeare, Titus Andronicus IV.iv.74</p>
<p>As time has passed since their illustrious careers met their ends, the reflexive has become increasingly less referential, as “self” evolved from commonly functioning as an adjective in Old English to functioning as a noun. Presently, the common expectation is that the reflexive “myself” has a preceding “I” to reflect, otherwise one comes off as the eccentric sort who enjoys reading Chaucer in the Middle English.</p>
<p>Once, at work, there was a visitor who knew Tom and where Tom’s office was. He did not know where Jane’s office was, so he asked Tom. Tom replied, “She sits over there, by myself.” My theory is that you need a Möbius strip to diagram that sentence. </p>
<p>It hurts my ears. The only saving grace is that most of the time, it is pompous windbags who out themselves with this, so it has a redeeming virtue.</p>
<p>This is one of those puzzles that good dictionaries address in a “usage note” because there is so much disagreement. The most current usage note I have at my desk this moment says “no.” But it’s 30 years old. If I remember I’ll see what Bryan Garner says about it when I get home. He’s rather conservative, so I suspect he’ll also say “no.”</p>
<p>The correct usage is the one we heard at a group dinner on the Swiss leg of a 2-week European tour in 1989. “And now, Guido and myself are gonna play the cowbell for YOU.”</p>
<p>Otherwise, you are correct, 3bm and mominva.</p>
<p>A slightly different perspective: the usage in the OP’s example includes a parenthetical explanation which indicates this isn’t ordinary usage but an attempt to deflect any egotism the author felt might be implicit in the word “me”. I think his choice was wrong but I don’t treat that as a traditional usage.</p>
<p>I won’t pretend to speak on the grammatical correctness of the Disney example, but it sounds horrible to my ear.
First of all, to say “I made it by myself with help from…” seems a contradiction. “By myself with help…”? If the fellow had help, then he didn’t make it by himself, did he? A much nicer wording(to my ear) would have been “I made this re-cut… with help from Nick Ebert”</p>
<p>OK. My 2003 edition of Bryan Garner’s *Modern American Usage<a href=“Oxford%20UP”>/i</a> says that reflexive pronouns should not replace simple objective pronouns. Period. Which is what I expected. I don’t treat usage guides like scripture, but for simple stuff I defer to Garner’s wisdom.</p>
<p>I mostly concur with younghoss on the awkward use of the passive in Disney example. It’s a terrible sentence. I’ll cut it a little slack because the author is fronting a pretty long noun phrase, which is a legitimate thing to do, as it shifts the emphasis from agent to recipient – but not the best idea when the agent is also a longish noun phrase. I think I would split it into too sentences, something like:</p>
<p>This is a recut of the Disney classic ‘Mary Poppins.’ I made it with Nick Eckert.</p>
<p>The problem with writing the sentence correctly is that it places “I” in the foreground and it appears the entire reason for the awkward original construction was to de-emphasize appearance of ego.</p>
<p>Interesting hypothesis, Madison85, and probably correct, since “myself” can be used as both nominative and objective, viz.:
I myself had not thought of that.
I bought myself a box of chocolate.
It avoids the whole issue of using “me” when that would be right, but other people might (incorrectly) use “I.”</p>
