Pros and Cons of Chiropractic Care

Parent Cafe
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<p>OK, not replying specifically either to leal or to jym (although I’ll have a response to something jym said later on, but not getting into mudslinging):</p>

<p>A few pages back, people were discussing chiropractic fraud, and assuming that these were people trying to defraud their health insurer. Generally, not so. Where chiropractic fraud comes in is usually involved in “whiplash” or other soft tissue injury claims in auto accidents, and in worker’s compensation claims. Chiropractic is generally used to jack up recovery from auto or worker’s comp insurers by documenting and treating fraudulent injuries that cannot be proven by any objective diagnostic technique. You all know the stereotype - the “ambulance chaser” with a stable of chiropractors so you can sue someone for personal injury. (Yes, it’s a stereotype. Don’t flame me - I’m a lawyer who has defended such suits. There are many, many legitimate, ethical plaintiff personal injury lawyers out there. But there are some who are not. Same with chiropractors.) And it is easier to commit such fraud with chiropractors than with physicians because physicians tend to need test results to treat; otherwise they just prescribe painkillers and the patient is done. This has little, if anything, to do with health insurance.</p>

<p>Now, I will assume that both leal and jym have engaged in significant hyperbole, and that neither completely dismisses the value of either chiropractic (when done correctly and appropriately) or of allopathic medicine. Having read many thoughtful posts by each, I feel this is an appropriate assumption. (OK, guys? Calm down and play nice.) To that end, I will ignore all of probably the last three pages of posts.</p>

<p>jym, you mentioned the dancer who had a vascular incident after chiropractic treatment. I wonder if this dancer had some other underlying problem that may have been exacerbated by the chiropractic? I also wonder what the rate of the kind of incident you mentioned might be. Recently there was another teenager around here who died of an undiagnosed heart ailment while playing soccer - that doesn’t necessarily mean that soccer is a dangerous sport.</p>

<p>All treatments, be they allopathic, chiropractic, osteopathic, surgical, whatever, carry risks. So does no treatment at all. The trick is determining for oneself whether the potential benefit and its probability outweigh the potential harm and its probability.</p>

<p>Those who prefer a “middle ground” between traditional allopathic medicine and chiropractic or other “alternative” therapies may wish to research osteopathic medicine. Osteopaths (DOs) have the same amount of training as allopaths (4 years post-college), but generally have a more “holistic” bent - they try to view the patient as a whole rather than as organ systems. An osteopath is more likely to believe that allergies and stomach problems and insomnia are interrelated and to seek a root cause, rather than treat each problem individually. Osteopaths are also licensed in every state (I believe) to prescribe medications in the same manner as MDs.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, Chedva, in that particular case, the young dancer’s cerebral artery dissection was a direct result of the chiropractic adjustment. I had seen another case (long time ago, don’t remember all the details) of a similar situation, but I believe this second chiropractic student had had some identifiable pre-existing condition,(or had had a problem after an adjustment, I cant recall–sorry) that warranted a warning placed on the front of his/her chart not to do that particular adjustment/manipulation. The Chiro school in my community had a clinic, and all students are expected to participate as clients for training purposes, so the student continued to get treated at the clinic. Unfortunately someone didn’t read the warning on the chart, and he/she also sustained a cerebral artery dissection. The second case was done by a student, the first by a faculty member, if memory serves me correctly. Here are a few references (unfortunately some of the other journal articles I found apparently can’t be accessed without a subscription)
<a href=“http://pub.ucsf.edu/newsservices/releases/200307213/[/url]”>http://pub.ucsf.edu/newsservices/releases/200307213/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.chiro.org/Professional_Regulation/reuter_u06.pdf[/url]”>http://www.chiro.org/Professional_Regulation/reuter_u06.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I realize by mentioning these cases I am being a bit of an alarmist to some. However, having seen these 2 cases up close and personal, I thought it was worth mentioning.</p>

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<p>OK, I accept your hypothesis that some DCs aren’t particularly good at what they do, and some are crooked. Would you grant the same of MDs? Would you also agree to the statement that some treatments prescribed by MDs end up doing more harm than good?</p>

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<p>My understanding is that chiropractic has been shown to have some benefit in a limited number of circumstances, but that the broader claims often made by practitioners are unproven and highly unlikely. The theory behind chiropractic is also unproven, and again, unlikely. But the manipulations do seem to help some people, although there are also risks.
I think it is also pretty obvious that the average chiropractic practitioner is far below the average MD in terms of educational background. It is really important for people to understand that treatments that are based on theories and anecdotal reports are not nearly as reliable as treatments based on careful, blinded, peer-reviewed research. There is a tendency among some people to think that traditional medicine is some big conspiracy designed to sell drugs and keep the alternative practitioners down; this simply isn’t true. I’ll give the alternative practitioners the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of them actually believe in the efficacy of their treatments–but that belief isn’t based on science in most cases.</p>

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<p>Do you have careful, blind, peer-reviewed research that treatment outcomes based on theories and anecdotal reports are not nearly as reliable as treatments based on careful, blinded, peer-reviewed research?</p>

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<p>OP back. Wow. Lots of strong opinions on this subject! Thanks, everyone for your thoughts.</p>

<p>We made an appointment with a local orthopedist. I thought it would be good to have him look her over to make sure it’s nothing severe. Plus, having a dancer and a gymnast, I figure we might as well get to know an orthopedist. </p>

<p>I’ve identified a good local PT clinic that treats a lot of the high school kids. When we’re at the orthopedist, I’ll bring up the chiropractor (they office just down the street from one another) and the PT clinic and see what he says.</p>

<p>The doctor’s appointment isn’t for a few weeks-earliest she could be fit in. I’ve made an appointment for her to have a massage this afternoon. That should help a bit.</p>

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<p>Washdad-
I assume your question in post #103 is rhetorical. Of COURSE there are treatments in the medical profession that can do more harm than good. For example, I have seen patients have chronic pain after unsuccessful back surgery. Personally, if it were me, I would probably look to as many nonsurgical interventions as possile (maybe even chiropractic!!!) before undergoing back surgery. This whole thread got way overblown. At the outset, the OP asked about the good and bad of chiropractic. Most posters commented afirmatively. I merely posted some warnings. The thread ultimately took on the form of one of those dreaded political threads. If someone had started a thread on the pros and cons of back surgery, I might have posted some similar comments about some negative outcomes I have seen.</p>

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<p>jym, I understand about these two incidents. And the fact that they happened in a teaching clinic is why I recommended an experienced practitioner. If he has a good record, he is less likely to have such severe untoward outcomes. (No guarantees, of course, just likelihood.)</p>

<p>And before you ask, I also recommend experienced allopaths and osteopaths as well.</p>

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<p>Hey missypie!
Welcome back! Sounds like you have made a good plan. One suggestion. See if the doctor has a waiting list for people will come in onshort notice. Oftentimes they get late cancellations and can get you in sooner. If it works with your schedule, it is worth a try.</p>

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<p>Chedva-
You’d asked (“I wonder if”…) if the dancer had a pre-existing condition, so I filled you in on the background, as best as I recall.<br>
I hadn’t planned to ask back if you preferred seasoned MDs or DOs. I think probably most people prefer “experienced” docs. However that said, there are very excellent young docs with superb training in the newest techniques. And, of course, “new” docs have to get to be “experienced” docs by… getting experience. I have a new young associate in my office. He is wonderful and well trained. Just because someone is new in the field doesnt necessrily mean they are not as good as the “senior” folks. In some cases, I’ve seen senior folks who aren’t as up-to-date as they should be. Each has their risks, I suppose.</p>

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<p>Chedva: thanks for your voice of reason.</p>

<p>OP: I’m glad you found a solution that you feel comfortable with. Aside from statistical risk factors, being comfortable with a modality does contribute to its effectiveness, imo.</p>

<hr>

<p>So, the patient had a predisposition, the adjustment was a mistake, and it was performed by a student. Sounds like a bizarre series of mistakes.</p>

<p>The other study you cited, showing that a small percentage of people may have injuries from chiropractic administered properly, seems more representative.</p>

<p>I have been aware for many years that chiropractic treatments can result in injuries, in a small percentage of cases. I’ve never disputed that. I just think it’s important to keep it in perspective, and comparing those figures to those of conventional allopathic treatments helps to keep it in perspective. </p>

<p>Well it looks like we can all agree that chiropractic, like other modalities, has a risk factor (though still probably less invasive and risky than surgery). So it would behoove anyone considering chiropractic, surgery, drugs, or any other treatment plan to weigh out the potential risks vs benefits of all procedures. </p>

<p>I just love happy endings!</p>

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<p>Leal- the second case was a bad outcome because the person didnt read the chart. The first one was a young girl who hoped to dance inthe olympic opening ceremonies, and ended up stroking out from a chiropractic adjustment. Two different cases.</p>

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<p>I just stumbled into this onthe web <a href=“http://your-doctor.com/patient_info/alternative_remedies/various_therapy/chiropractic.html[/url]”>http://your-doctor.com/patient_info/alternative_remedies/various_therapy/chiropractic.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Looks to be a little old,and written by physicians with their own agenda- but still intresting none the less.</p>

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<p>From your post, I wasn’t quite sure which was which. Thanks for the clarification.</p>

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<h2>“I have been aware for many years that chiropractic treatments can result in injuries”</h2>

<p>I can attest to this. When I was a teenager, my mother took me to a chiropractor for a wrenched neck. With absolutely no warning or explanation, while I was laying on the table, I felt these tiny pricks around the outer rim of my outside ear. Obviously, I couldn’t see my own ear, so I asked what the ‘doctor’ was doing and he replied “oh, we’re just trying a little acupuncture”. I sat up abruptly to protest and promptly passed out. Concussion. ER.</p>

<p>My mom apologized the whole way home.</p>

<p>(btw…smacking your forehead hard on a linoleum-covered concrete floor is NOT a cure for a wrenched neck.)</p>

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<p>So, ldmom did the chiropractor give you an injury he could then treat??
Sorry… couldnt resist, Too tempting . I’ll slap my own hand. OK. all better.</p>

<p>By the way, the vet who put my dog in a metal cage to send his energy info over the phone line to someone in Calif used this NAET silliness. <a href=“http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/naet.html[/url]”>http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/naet.html&lt;/a&gt; Any experience with that one???</p>

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<p>I haven’t read most of this thread, but want to comment. I’ve been to 2 chiropractors in my life. The first was a complete snake oil salesman, the second is a true healer. I’ve taken an MD friend to him also and he was completely impressed with the huge rapid pain relief he experienced from a single adjustment. I have taken my child to see him also, an act of supreme trust. I would not go to a chiropractor without getting references from people who know something, but a good one is a gift from the gods of pain relief.</p>

118

<p>rofl jym!! </p>

<p>Nah…I’m just a small town Texas farm girl. We don’t get a lot of exposure to some this more swanky ‘medical’ stuff, but we do tend to know what bull**** smells like…lol!</p>

119

<p>HAHAHA! I think that there ws BS (literally and figuratevely) in the concoction put together by the vet who wanted to tread my dog’s heart problems with this NAET intervention stuff. <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAET[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAET&lt;/a&gt; I , too can smell BS !!</p>

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<p>Also, an osteopath might be helpful.</p>