Hello everyone. As I’ve looked into colleges more and more, I’ve become somewhat interested in going to college out of the country (I live in the USA). Could you give me some pros and cons of studying abroad? Right now I plan on doing my entire major outside of the USA. I know that one gets significantly better tuition costs when studying abroad. Thanks
This depends upon a LOT of things, including where you intend to study, what you can afford, and for some countries and some universities what languages you speak.
We live pretty much in the Northeast corner of the US. As such eastern Canada is relatively close to us. My youngest daughter is a freshman at a university in Canada. There were a number of reasons that she chose to go to university there. Just off the top of my head some that come to mind include:
- There happen to be some very good universities in Canada that we found very attractive. Some of these are in eastern Canada and as such not very far from our home.
- Admissions is predictable. With straight A's and high SAT scores and strong references she knew that she was in at any university in Canada. Strictly speaking the same would have been true for our in-state public flagship university, but it is very large and she wanted a small university (or what in the US we would call an LAC). Admission at the LACs in New England is very hard to predict -- based on the naviance scatter plots that I saw it seemed as if high GPA and SAT scores almost didn't help at all. Of course my daughter saw the same scatter plots.
- Admissions is easy. Send in your high school transcript, references, SAT scores, contact information and a small application fee and you are pretty much done -- other than deciding which school to attend.
- The price at the small universities in eastern Canada is very reasonable. A few years ago prices for international students were about the same as the in-state prices at our state flagship public university. However, the state flagship prices have since gone up a bit. For international students the prices do vary a lot between different universities in Canada, and even more if comparing universities on a worldwide basis. One advantage of schools outside the US is that the cost is predictable -- when first applying we knew that every school that she applied to in Canada would be affordable. In contract, if she had been applying to LACs in the US it would have been very difficult to predict whether any would have been affordable until we actually got the acceptance offer.
- A person can never really fully understand the world if viewing it solely from inside the most powerful country in the world. There is a considerable value in spending some time outside of the US if you want to understand the world, or even if you just want to understand the US.
- Some of the LACs that we visited in the US seemed to think that they were "prestigious". This put us off a bit. I have happened to work with a few very successful people who have accomplished a lot, and I never heard any of them talk about doing "prestigious" work. In contrast, they talked about how to solve specific problems, and where there were multiple possible solutions how to get people to agree on one. Their focus was on getting stuff done. In a quiet moment over dinner they might ask how my kids are doing. To me talking about "prestige" is not prestigious -- being pragmatic and sensible and doing good work and caring about people is. In contrast, my daughter got to talk to professors and students at multiple of the small universities in eastern Canada, and they talked about what sort of experience the student will have there, and what they can do to help the student do well. In our experience the small "primarily undergraduate" universities in eastern Canada provide a very supportive environment for their students.
One downside of going to a small university in Canada is that people here in the US have mostly not heard of them. Several of the other students at my daughter’s high school were asking her essentially “where?” and “you are the top student in the school, why aren’t you going to Dartmouth or Bowdoin or Colby or Wellesley?”. I told her that as soon as we land in Canada this was going to change to “great school”. We flew to Halifax, got off the plane and went up to the customs official, he asked “why are you here”. I said “to attend university orientation, my daughter will start in September”. He asked “which school”. My daughter points to her shirt. He says “great university”. My understanding is that admissions at top US graduate schools know how strong the universities are in Canada. Most other Americans know about McGill and might know about Toronto, UBC, and Waterloo, but that is pretty much the end of what the average American seems to know about universities in Canada.
I happen to know two professors at two universities in Canada. If you don’t, then you are going to need to dig some to find which universities to consider. In our experience the guidance staff at US high schools don’t know much about universities in Canada other than perhaps McGill and Toronto.
Depending upon where you live in the US, and where you go to school outside of the US, travel might or might not be an issue. Be sure to figure out how you will travel back and forth and keep the cost in mind.
For us the weather was not much of an issue. The school where my daughter is studying has almost precisely the same winter weather as we do here in our part of New England. In fact, she is mostly east of where we live rather than north. However, in university a student will spend more time outside than in high school, so good quality winter boots and winter coat and accessories are needed. We have spent about $500 on winter gear even though she is currently experiencing the same winter weather that we are. Students from a warmer part of the US might have more of a weather shock if going to university in a colder climate. Of course the same could be said of U.Michigan or UVM or Dartmouth College.
Feel free to ask questions if you want more information.
@DadTwoGirls Dalhousie? (See not all americans are clueless!) You post was spot on!
OP one of the biggest differences is the amount of administrative support you find at non US schools. Do not underestimate the educational/cultural differences. There is no hand holding. Don’t overestimate your resiliency. You will get homesick and sometimes even a mild case of homesickness compounded with cultural and academic differences, even if they are minor, make for a very hard hill to climb.
Consider the marketability of your foreign degree if you plan on returning to the workforce in the US and any differences in credentialing necessary for you chosen career and even entry to grad school. Not a big issue, but something to consider.
Good Luck with your decision. (I vote go for it!)
As @DadTwoGirls said, it depends a lot on where you go and what you want to study. Also, although tuition is less than the US, it is not always as amazing a deal as you might think- it varies by country and institution- and esp in major cities, housing can eat up a lot of the savings. Places with a lot of foreign students tend to have a higher price for foreigners. In many places you will need to demonstrate that you have enough in the bank to support yourself as part of the visa process.
As @labegg pointed out, you will have to be much more independent / expect less support from the university than in the US.In general, there is much less emphasis on continuing assessment and more on exams. Especially in the first year or two, in many countries expect a lot of large lectures and little direct interaction. In most places that I am familiar with, you don’t have a major- you apply to study a specific subject & that’s what you do- which makes it important to be sure what you want to study! As @DadTwoGirls said, admissions tends to be much more straightforward: if you meet the stated requirements you are probably in (though that is not so true for the really big name unis).
Our first college kid knew exactly what she wanted to study, & did her degree in the U.K., but the next one wasn’t ready to commit to one subject, so she did her undergrad in the US. Both were really happy with their choice. Having studied & taught in North & South America and in Europe, and seen a lot of international students, when it works it’s great; but for some students it’s just too
Thank you @DadTwoGirls, @labegg , and @collegemom3717. DadTwoGirls, I’ve lived in New England for my whole life, so I guess weather isn’t really going to be an issue, or I at least won’t experience weather shock to the point a student from Southern California would. As of right now, I haven’t really researched any smaller Canadian universities (I’ve primarily looked into McGill). I’ve also really only looked into English-speaking countries/schools (McGill is sort of in the middle, English in a French city, but I study French right now as a foreign language, so hopefully that would be enough for conversational talk outside of the classroom).
Also, thank you again to labegg and collegemom3717.
Just as a little bit of information, I’ve looked into Canada and South Africa, with a little bit of New Zealand. Surprisingly, I haven’t explored many of the United Kingdom’s / Ireland’s universities yet. I would think that simply the travel costs from New Zealand may end up being the main obstacle, coming form from New England. Still, almost all of these countries appeal to me, especially South Africa.
Really, assuming you find the right place, international universities are an amazing combination of a well-priced education and exploration. I guess the exploration part was what drew me in (the farthest I’ve ever gone from Rhode Island, my home state, is Quebec City to the north, Florida to the south, Pennsylvania to to the west (I think) and Maine/Florida to the east), but once I started seeing the comparatively low cost of attending school out of country compared to colleges in country, it was eye-opening. Also, specific to me, I’d be paying lots of money for college wherever I go, because my state only has two public universities, discounting its one community college.
Once again, thank yo to everyone who responded.
After rereading my post, I just felt like I should say how I haven’t explored college education in the the U.K. much at all.
@cruiser18 you may want to cosider US schools that have first year abroad opportunities like Loyola Chicago or (I think it is Florida State, NYU there are several others where you spend the first year abroad and then return to the US to finush out your degree.
“Dalhousie?”
Yes, also a very good choice. We toured Dal in one of our trips to Nova Scotia and I quite liked it, although it was bigger than what my daughter was looking for.
“There is no hand holding.”
For the big ones (anything you have heard of for most Americans) this is very true. I know quite a few people who went to McGill. They all loved it. There are some posts on CC from students who hated it. All agreed that McGill is academically very demanding, large and bureaucratic, academically very strong, and a lot of work.
One other thing that I forgot to mention: If you can get into Harvard or Stanford without a “hook”, then you are academically strong enough to do well. McGill and Toronto are much easier to get into than Harvard or Stanford (assuming no “hook”), but probably not any easier to graduate from. As such, some students do go to Toronto or McGill and find it too difficult. Also, given the reasonable price and academic difficulty of McGill, it is not unusual for students to just take 4 or even 3 classes at a time rather than 5, and make up the difference via some combination of summer school and/or taking 5 or even 6 years to graduate. I assume this is probably also true at Toronto but I don’t know as many students who went there.
“housing can eat up a lot of the savings”
Montreal and Atlantic Canada are relatively reasonably priced. Toronto and Vancouver are very expensive. Calgary was very expensive prior to the downturn in the oil industry, but I have no idea what housing costs there now.
“I study French right now as a foreign language, so hopefully that would be enough for conversational talk”
There are three English language universities in Quebec: McGill, Concordia (a large university up the street from McGill), and Bishop’s (a small university in Lennoxville, just outside of Sherbrooke). You don’t need any French at all to attend any of them, but knowing a little French will be useful for “outside of school” purposes. As one example, I find that when I walk into a store in Montreal and start speaking French they immediately switch to English and seem to give me better service since I at least tried. Lennoxville, and the part of Montreal around McGill and Concordia seem to be populated mostly by English speaking students and fully bilingual everyone else.
For the French language universities in Quebec your French would need to be very, very strong.
“I haven’t really researched any smaller Canadian universities”
Coming from New England, the first ones to consider are probably Mount Allison (New Brunswick), Acadia and St Francis Xavier (Nova Scotia), and Bishop’s (Quebec). Bishop’s is the closest, being less than 5 hours from Rhode Island.
“assuming you find the right place, international universities are an amazing combination of a well-priced education and exploration”
I agree. “assuming you find the right place” is of course very important. I think of Canada as sort of “semi-abroad”, since it is both a lot closer and a bit less exotic than some other countries that you could consider. A long time ago I knew someone who had done a year abroad in England and loved it.
Good luck with your search!
Thanks again @DadTwoGirls
I’d be wary of South Africa. Cape Town is okay as long as you stay away from some areas, but many cities are extremely violent and dangerous. As a foreigner you’re an easier target, in part because you’re not used to it and in part because you can’t recognize signs of coming danger.
Look at the Scottish universities. Depending on your grades or interests, check out Edinburgh, Glasgow, st Andrews, Aberdeen, Herriot Watts, Edinburgh Napier, Abertay.
FSU has a deal whereby you spend your first year abroad then get instate tuition for year 2-4 as long as you maintained satisfactory behavior and a 2.0 GPA while abroad.
Look into year abroad for NYU or Marist.
SLU has an entire campus in Madrid.
Look into Sciences Po Reims, the US/France international relations campus.
While one of the pros of spending your entire college career abroad might be living immersed in another culture and perhaps lower cost, there are also several cons to consider. A previous poster mentioned that colleges in other countries do not offer the same type of college experience in terms of administrative support, frequently the student body is older as in other countries there is required military service or national service at age 18 prior to college, the housing options and dining options are different. It is common to have housing provided but no food service included or perhaps minimal food service provided so that you are on your own in what could be an expensive area to buy/prepare meals. If you did decide to transfer back to a school in the U.S you will be less likely to have credits transferred. Internships and faculty connections for grad school recommendations or suggestions for summer programs might be harder to come by. If you get a summer internship abroad, housing might be an issue. Health insurance coverage might be an issue. You really are on your own without a lot of handholding or administrative support so you really need to be self-motivated.
That said there are people who do study in other countries and there are also others who study in the U.S and perhaps do two semesters abroad. A lot of that might depend on your major and area of study. I have a cousin who was double major in French/Spanish and did a semester abroad in both France and in Spain. I have a friend whose son did an entire year both semesters in London.
Both of my daughters did semesters abroad in programs that offered specific content/classes for their major. One d also studied abroad in a summer art program that she then interned for and became a staff member for several summers prior to going to grad school.
In many foreign schools it goes far beyond lack of administrative support. There is a reason that foreign colleges are cheaper than US ones. In many cases, such as many uni’s in the UK and Europe, your classes will consist of lectures 2-3 times per week, then a mid term and final (or sometimes a final only). You don’t have the endless quizzes and indicators of your class progress. You don’t have the extensive office hours and TA help sessions you typically have either. The grading system is different too - it’s very difficult to get a first class, or first class with distinction in the British system. It will be different in science classes with labs. You will need to be extremely disciplined and organized to do well.
In the EU, many unis are in cities with housing separate from the university buildings. There is often not much of a campus either. (there are many with a traditional campus too). Many students go to school part time and work. Since the drinking age is usually around 18, a lot of social life is centered around the pubs. “Dorms” are not always as nice, and food is just bad (but cheap!). There are both public and private unis in many countries.
You should check at reciprocity agreements between your perspective US uni’s and those abroad. In some cases you may be able to pay in-state tuition even at the more expensive European unis under the semester/year abroad programs, and spend a significant time there.
Some Canadian unis are pretty well known in the US , like UT, UBC, Queens and McGill. The others are not and may be a disadvantage for employment or grad school.
For admission, you will be competing with a huge pool of international students, mainly Chinese, some Indian, and the balance from other countries in smaller numbers.
Living abroad is a wonderful experience and I’d recommend it even if only for a semester or two.
I didn’t read the posts above because they are all quite long, but if no one has mentioned this yet, I will:
So, I was looking at applying to universities in the UK (Univ. of Edinburgh, Exeter, and St. Andrews), many of these schools – especially St Andrews – accept a ton of Americans. However, Americans generally dont qualify for scholarships or financial aid, and what you can get is often fairly small. This is partly how St. Andrews earns money.
Additionally, the cost of living in Europe is rather high in comparison to some spots of the U.S. Depending on where you are from, the prices could be situation normal though. But, in general, things are more expensive. Plus, you know, flying back when you want to see your family.
From my knowledge, the super-cheap tuition you see at foreign universities is usually only for citizens or members of the EU. Socialism doesnt work in general, but for it to sort of barely – but not really – scrap through in these countries people need to pay into the system before they reap the “rewards.”
Also, consider where you want to work in the future. If you want to work in the U.S., it would probably behoove you to study in the U.S. for name-recognition purposes (unless you go to Cambridge or Oxford – those are known everywhere).
This has been a bit of a ramble, but hopefully you get something from it.
Thank you @MYOS1634 , @bookmama22 , @TooOld4School and @18YearsASlav . I guess it’s necessary to weigh the pros and cons. I don’t have to worry much yet, as I’m only a sophomore, but still, I guess it’s good I’m looking around. Thank you, though, for providing different views on whether or not studying abroad is something I would want to do.
I guess I just want to study abroad because I want to explore. My stats also sort of fit, as I’m a B+, A- and A student, so good, but not good enough to get anywhere truly prestigious. I’m not really a leader in anything either, so that doesn’t help. I do do sports year round though. Thanks again to everyone that responded.
Will your parents pay? Do you know about the financials?
@cruiser18…have you thought about a high school foreign exchange program? Easier to get your feet wet in a supportive environment. I did an exchange to Germany for a semester in high school and then a year abroad at the University of London when I was a junior/senior in college. I had travelled extensively and had the semester abroad in high school, but even I had a few very rough experiences during my year abroad and was in no way prepared for the difference in the educational system between here and Great Britain. There was a world of difference. It was VERY self directed and seminar based, nothing at all like anything I had ever experienced. If you are thinking of studying abroad for college think about doing an IB program if your HS offers it, it will be the closest you will come to preparing you for a foreign university.
@Sybylla , a couple of the colleges I’ve looked into so far are very good in terms of price. I can go the Cape Town and study at a University much better than my weak state schools (I’m from Rhode Island, so I’ve only got two, and they’re not that good) for only about $2,000 dollars more plus airfare. It’s certainly more affordable in most cases that going to an out of state public or a private. Maybe if I was from California or New York I would be better served staying in state, but when URI and RIC is all I’ve got, the financial situation outside of the country seems better than other American universities. I think I should say, though, that my sample size is very limited, I’ve really only looked into financials for McGill and UCT. I would think the trend is mostly the same at most foreign public universities (except for the UK, I don’t know about there, I just haven’t had the urge to investigate there yet). Also, I never really realized until recently that parents are the primary funding behind the education of many students. I believe my parents would contribute some money, but not nearly enough to cover all costs.
No, @labegg my high school doesn’t offer IB. It’s really not that good of a high school. Ivies are a rarity at my high school, and I don’t really even know how IB works. My school is at a point where they’re trying to grow the number of AP courses, but trying to grow other things as well. Also, the school is obsessed with EEP courses, which give credit at in-state universities (and maybe out of state, but I would think it would be a school-by-school thing out of state). My high school is somewhat weak. It’s getting more and more into “pathways,” which are where one focuses on one specific subject throughout high school and gets to say they competed the Academy of x subject. The education climate in northern Rhode Island is actually getting more-and more cutthroat, as kids can come from different districts to do pathways at schools outside of their district. However, the student’s hometown has to pay for them to go to school in a different district. Thus, the public schools are trying to gets kids to attend in the way private schools try and keep enrollment, as more kids from other towns means more funding for the school. In the meantime, my school doesn’t offer one AP calculus course, only offers 1 AP english course (AP english lit), and only biology-related AP science courses (AP bio and environmental science). But, yay, we have all the business courses one’s heart desires, and an actual daycare for real preschoolers in the Family and consumer science wing, certainly helpful to all of us STEM kids. We do have a strong engineering department though (full metal working and wood working labs, a computer lab, 3-D printer, a lot of nice stuff), but at it’s core, my school doesn’t have a good variety of APs in some of education’s most vital areas (math, english, and science). Well after that rant, hopefully you can see my school is not the kind of place to offer IB, which from what I understand is a intense education system, am I correct?
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Yeh, you need to establish this bit before any fanciful imaginary trips to overseas schools. You need the money talk before anything else, as it is you are early enough in to have a head start on working that out.