We live just north of Boston on the NH border. I just visited Penn State with my daughter. She absolutely fell in love with the campus. Her high school has almost 4000 students and is set up like a college campus, so she wants a big school. I will say the drive is SO long, and I can’t imagine making it that often. I was happy there is a bus to Needham for the holidays/spring break. My daughter would also need to do summer, which is think may be the deal breaker since she needs to work this summer. Between summer and OOS tuition, I do not think it is where she will go. If money was not an obstacle, it would be her top choice.
My son is more focused on corporate finance than investment banking. But isn’t particularly interested in becoming a financial planner type. He sees himself as part of a corporate finance team.
A general term for IBs financial markets clients who purchase securities as investment vehicles. Jobs at these firms range from portfolio managers, traders, research analysts, etc.
Think of money managers, insurance companies, state pensions, mutual funds, hedge funds, family offices, etc. While IB sales and traders interact with clients for both purchases and sales they are often referred to as the “buy side”.
Thanks!
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I don’t remember, did he get into PC honors ? It may soothe his disapointment a bit because this typically comes with perks.
You have the smaller salary + responsibility for a sick child - you simply can’t risk taking parental loans: The slightest hiccup and everything could capsize.
The person who could take on that responsibility is the person with a comfortable salary and no sick child to take care of. I hope your son can see that and focus his efforts on his father.
I don’t think there’s a difference between Providence and Babson for corporate finance nowadays.
(NB: 40 years ago PC’s SAT scores were around 480V/510M and most ok students from New England Catholic schools could get in. Things have changed A LOT. It’s now the #1 Regional University in the North, ie., in the most competitive regional category and the one where Villanova used to be.)
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If he didn’t get into PC honors, could he apply for/ask about it at this point?
If your son plans on repaying the parent plus loans himself, can he convince his father of that and get his dad to co-sign for him?
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Adding on that a quick google search says that students cannot co-sign parent plus loans, so you might want to double-check that if it is important to you.
I was also wondering about honors. That would give him the kind of cohort he wants. If he wasn’t invited as a freshman, he can apply for sophomore year: https://honors.providence.edu/applying-to-the-honors-program/
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It strikes me that you might benefit from looping in some sort of financial advisor, both to help you get full clarity on the situation, and to serve as the “bad cop” in a discussion with your son. If you had a financial expert advise you strongly about where to draw the line in what you’ll do to pay for your son’s education, and if that expert were willing to tell your son, “I have gone over your mom’s financials, and I know she desperately wants to give you everything you want, but I am strenuously advising her not to cosign PLUS loans, and this is why”… maybe that would help with both your peace of mind and your son’s comprehension of where things stand.
Also, you’re 100% correct about the pitfalls of comparing ROI numbers when the most popular majors vary between schools. We have this conversation about engineering schools all the time. STEM-focused schools where the majority of grads are engineers, computer scientists, etc., end up at the top of the ROI ranking lists. Schools where the engineering department is a much smaller subset of the college as a whole, do not tend to rank as high. Does that mean that the ROI for an engineering major will be lower at the all-purpose school vs. the STEM-specialty school? There’s no reason to believe that it does. Babson is similar - virtually everybody who goes there wants a business career. We don’t have the data to compare Babson with only the business students at less-specialized schools. Apples and oranges.
I honestly believe your son will thank you someday, for not letting him and you take on an albatross of debt. But right now, you need to strategize how to get there with as little anguish as possible. Figure out who can help talk you both through this. You’re shouldering too much on your own. (And I know that assertion is not news to you!)
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Just a personal note on Plus loans. Our first aid package came from a CSS school that doesn’t do full need. They didn’t even come close. The letter suggested we could borrow like 30k extra in Plus loans to cover the gap… for EACH of our twins. So $60k per year.
Some times you just have to say no. I might consider doing a small amount if I had to. But the fact that they suggested I borrow 60k struck me as wild.
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@aquapt Thank you for this excellent suggestion to pull in a third party to discuss student loan debt and the impact on us. I think this is a critical piece of the equation that he needs at this point rather than solely focusing on the merits /reputations of each school. I’m on it!
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As illuminating as this discussion is, IMHO it is entirely irrelevant to the OP.
OP’s kid cannot borrow enough to afford Babson. Dad will not pay, will not borrow.
That leaves mom- who cannot afford Babson, and based on what we know, SHOULD not borrow. This isn’t a situation of "with a little belt tightening (i.e. no eating out and frugal vacations) Mom can pay off the loans. This is mom with no safety net except for her own resources; a medically fragile younger child; an uncooperative ex.
I think it’s super irrelevant for affluent upper middle class posters to engage in this fantasy land of who has the better ROI. And it’s certainly not helpful for a parent trying to wrap their mind around federal loans PLUS parent loans and what that level of payback means EVERY SINGLE MONTH.
The ROI of Babson is irrelevant, Mom. Your son’s job is to be the best college student he can be at his affordable option- Providence- and to knock the cover off the ball. That’s the best way for him to be positioned for a successful career.
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This ^^^^
Babson is not in consideration. OP is a Babson alum so presumably knows about the school. Keep the thread on-topic for the OP. Feel free to continue off-topic conversations in PM or another thread. Thanks for your understanding.
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Please move the back and forth to PM! And to be clear, this is not a suggestion. A number of posts were flagged, hidden, and now deleted.
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I’ve been busy taking this group’s advice!
Yesterday I reached out again and spoke to someone Who spelled out the scars and hardships of big loans. As a matter of fact, this person took out significant loans himself, and would never sign up to do it again. He said he worked 80 hours/week (working three jobs while living at home for two years after college, and having no life).
I told him I had read the book “the price you pay for college”, and he said the better book to read is “ where are you go is not who you are “ so I started reading that yesterday evening. (On the Libby app from my public library for both books!) 
The one key take away that really hit me was
*A report in which graduates with $20,000-$40,000 in Postgrad debt has a significant impact on well-being and workplace engagement and are much less likely to be thriving than those without student loan debt. That was a huge surprise to me! How is my son going to feel with six-figure debt? 
*On the flipside, they talked about schools that are 5% or 20% acceptance rate, and how they are all in the same range of qualified students at that level - you’re splitting hairs. And how people categorize you as being “vetted” by the school so employers have to do less work on those initial hires if you’re in one of those schools. That’s pretty much what my son is concerned with…which path is going to give him the best options for the future. I also suggested him that he may want an advanced degree down the road and with big debt that is going to be off the table for him for a long, long time. But some say with the right undergraduate biz degree you may not need the mba you may do fine with some certificates like the CFP etc for finance.
I am definitely feeling the physical /mental stress of loans this week as is my son now that I have started investigating what they really mean (thanks to you all helping me realize this!!) I hadn’t dug into them at all in a meaningful way until yesterday other than calling some private loan vendors … so I am starting to understand the differences between the plus loans and private loans seems to be just a matter of shopping for for the best terms if one goes down the loan route. I have heard that there are also state loans to look at.
Overall, I feel way less stress when I think about a life without mega loans. How do I handle it if/when my other children when ask for the same? In that case I would be carrying hundreds of thousands of plus loans for three kids which I would never do.
religion alert
I was flipping through Providence College social media https://news.providence.edu/meet-instagrammer-rev-simon-teller/
last night which led me to reading about virtues. One of which is prudence, which in my reading seems to cover equally sharing resources among people and not emotionally giving something extra to one over another …so that’s food for thought too for me. Even though my son is an excellent student it wouldn’t be fair to take extra loans for one and not his siblings.
The other big Providence College happy story that caught my eye last week was the students who gathered together to buy a plane ticket for the security guard in their dorm to see his family in Nigeria. They referred to Friar family looking out for each other. It made national news that really speaks to the values I have instilled in my children (selflessness, generosity, volunteerism ).
My son’s his guidance counselor even suggested PC as a potential good fit given my son’s outstanding track record of community and family service. (mom brag)
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He has tried that, but his father has refused. Instead, the father uses it as another opportunity to harass. And I have tried applying pressure through the court and no luck there either just stress and wasted money including me being ordered to pay HIS legal bills when I didn’t/couldn’t afford to have an attorney and he did because I didn’t understand the legal ins and outs. Too focused on getting my son the his cancer treatments as I should be.
They said father doesn’t have to pay for any school he doesn’t agree to. He agrees to none! What a winning strategy.
So I am resigned that the burden is on my son and I to make the best decision with my limited means.
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Thank you for sharing that. I wish nothing but the best for you and your kids. 
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I am so sorry to hear that. This must be so very, very stressful for you.
It really seems like PC is a great choice for your son for academics, price, and values. And again, if he is one of the top students in the school, he will shine and be the one who gets research positions, awards, nominations for special programs, great letters of recommendation, etc. It’s a win-win.
And if he ever does want an MBA, he’ll have a stellar track record from his undergraduate to submit.
Wishing you and yours the very best as you navigate this.
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Based on what you’re saying, Providence actually sounds like a grear fit.
Is it affordable without parental loans? Without the 5.5k loan or only a portion of the 5.5k, like with 2.5k loans instead?
(Would shaving 2k off costs help? Did they offer work study?)
The Honors program would be of special interest for the special alumni mentoring and shadowing/internship opportunities.
If he wasn’t among the 100 out of 1,200 who was invited to Honors out of HS, he can apply at the end of freshman year, using his freshman grades.
BTW, surely he understands that if his father has the means and refuses to help, it’s on his father, not on you?
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