Quadruplets Admitted to Yale

<p>I maintain that the fundamental problem with any argument truly for or against AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is that it assumes a purpose behind the college admissions process that simply doesn’t exist.</p>

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<p>We can’t talk about “individuals that are not as qualified as others” because no admission office’s mission statement is to seek out the individuals with the highest scores and grades for their class. They are looking to create the class that will make everyone involved with the university (the students, the professors, the administration, the alumni, and the media) as happy as possible, just like every other private higher education institution in the country. Something like skin color, even based solely on appearance and without any attention paid to socioeconomics, is obviously going to be a part of that decision.</p>

<p>Affirmative action by itself is not really something that can be ended without changing the way admissions officers everywhere think. I don’t mean to be unnecessarily inflammatory, but ultimately race has to be considered a factor just like any other one in college admissions. Maybe it isn’t fair that a violist gets preference over a violinist because dad played viola and encouraged his son to do it and good viola players are rarer than good violin players, but that’s just how it has to be.</p>

<p>wow, they should totally use <em>this</em> topic (AA and 4 black quadruplets into yale) in debate tournaments</p>

<p>"Quote:
In what way? My family makes $40,000 per year yet I do not check a box on the application to support this. </p>

<p>It’s called FAFSA."</p>

<p>Actually, because the Yale admission office and the financial aid department work independently from one another, what you put on FASFA has no bearing on your chance of admission. It’s part of need-blind admission… at least that’s how I understood it. So, unless you make your economic disadvantage a main point of your essay, it would not factor into admission. There was a discussion on this in the forum some time before. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.</p>

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<p>You lost me there. If there is no such thing as “more qualified”, then either 1)the applicants who are admitted are just as qualified as those who are not, which would make college admission completely unfair and riddiculous, or 2)those who are not admitted are not “qualified” to attend Yale, which I believe is untrue. Well, I guess you have to define what factors into being “qualified”. </p>

<p>If you read through the entire thread, most of the arguments here are straw man arguments.</p>

<p>mifune is orgasmic!! WHOAAAA O_O</p>

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yess

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<p>yessssssss!</p>

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<p>ohhhhhh yessssssssssssssssssss yess yesss!</p>

<p>SMACK THAT HARD!
BAM BAM BAM</p>

<p>If another person mentions unfair racial representation at Yale, here are some statistics:</p>

<p>Population of the United States:
White - 75.0%
Latino - 15.4%
Black - 12.4%
Asian - 4.4%
American Indian - 0.8%
Pacific Islander - 0.1%
Other/Biracial - 7.2%</p>

<p>Population of students at Yale:
Unreported - >12% (usually White or Asian students, based on what I’ve read in articles)
White - 50%
Latino - 8%
Black - 8%
Asian - 14%
Native American - less than 1%
International - 8%</p>

<p>I’m not using this for my argument, just putting this out there for anyone else to use.</p>

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<p>Actually, mifune stated earlier in the thread that he didn’t know which part of his Yale application let the admissions office know his socioeconomic status. He said he didn’t know “which box to check”. I told him the source is the FAFSA, which is correct. Yale uses a variety of indicators to figure out your financial status, from your zip code to your school to the FAFSA. Thus, what you put on FAFSA actually does have something to do with your chances admissions at Yale. It can help.</p>

<p>At non-need blind schools it can hurt. </p>

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<p>Bingo!</p>

<p>What’s not ridiculous or unfair about taking one applicant over another for the sake of regional diversity or legacy status all other things being equal? </p>

<p>Admissions at highly competitive schools like Yale teeter on arbitrary because the factors that get an applicant in are often things that the applicant can’t control.</p>

<p>Even though people tend to have their minds made up on this, I would like to throw in my two cents. </p>

<p>My first thought is that I don’t understand why people say AA means that minorities will have to live with the knowledge that they (we) got in because of AA. Where does that come from? Granted, there are some people who always second guess themselves and can’t take compliments, rewards, etc, at face value, but I don’t see how that’s a standard. People can claim that certain other people won awards for whatever reason, but at the end of the day, I should think that one knows if he or she earned something. Plenty of people have tried to tell me that I won awards because of my race, but I don’t buy it. I know exactly what I bring to the table and it’s irrefutable.</p>

<p>Something else I don’t understand about that is, when it comes to affirmative action or college admissions, people always want to jump on race. I think we’ve established that there are other affirmative action policies in place (such as legacy, athletic, etc.). I won’t beat that dead horse, except to say that those categories are just examples of how a university builds the class it wants–which is its prerogative. (And really, if someone thinks the practices of a university aren’t good, why would he or she go? If the university is undermined by those practices, it should follow by that same line of thinking that it’s clearly not being run in the fashion of a “top university,” so why care? Unless the brand name really is all that matters.) I often wonder why no one questions how other awards are given out. If someone wins a writing award, why does no one jump on the fact that maybe the judges wanted someone who was a sophomore to win, as opposed to the “best” writer? That might be a bad example. Let’s consider high schools where one of the graduation speakers is “historically” a student body officer. People generally don’t consider that the speaker is speaking because he or she is in an elected position; the assumption is that the speaker earned it regardless.</p>

<p>Now, if we don’t question every award, why should we question college admissions? Furthermore, how many people question their own awards, as opposed to just questioning the accolades of others? Along those lines, many people do NOT care why they won;they just care that they did win. The Texas Longhorns don’t care why they’re getting to go to a championship game; they’re just happy they’re going.</p>

<p>As far as the bias of overrepresentation, why is it never brought up that overrepresentation can also be in one’s benefit? If the powers that be must choose a winner based on people will similar stats, they may see an Asian name or a traditionally caucasian name and feel comfortable that that person is intelligent, qualified, etc., as opposed to someone with a traditionally hispanic or “black” name. When one sees a list of winner, typically one isn’t surprised to see names from the former category. This benefit that’s attributed being in the over-represented group is very real–at least as real as the harm that is felt by the over-represented groups. It’s sort of like the notion of white privilege that someone brought up a few pages back.</p>

<p>All this said, I think each side has valid points. It’s the same with politics. Most of us are doing what we believe is better. The other side isn’t wrong–they just have different beliefs about what is best. Life is complicated and to simplify an issue into right and wrong is much more difficult than the way in which we’re trying to do so. I hope I didn’t offend anyone because I do see that most everyone posting has a basis for an argument. I also hope that this two cents didn’t turn into an entire dollar. XD</p>

<p>The fact that many of you have beliefs that you’re willing to stand for and defend does you all credit. :)</p>

<p>“why does no one jump on the fact that maybe the judges wanted someone who was a sophomore to win”</p>

<p><em>cough</em>HEISMAN<em>cough</em></p>

<p>^we’re nerds. NO BODY CARES ABOUT THE HEISmAN!!</p>

<p>see, in America, we are basically fine with being judged on things that we can work for. This is why there is not as much outlash against the preference given to legacies, athletes.
with legacies, their parents worked hard to put them in the place that they are. same with high income people. and athletes worked hard to achieve levels of success</p>

<p>buttt, when you judge based on race, which is something you cannot “gain” or control for, it is wrong.</p>

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<p>Umm not even. His post shows a complete lack of logic and objectivity.</p>

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<p>The best quote so far :)</p>

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<p>Actually you an applicant can not control or gain legacy status, and exactly like race it is conferred on them at birth. To support one and not the other is nonsensical.</p>

<p>Quote from mifune
“Further, I am alarmed at the degree to which people believe that skin color is absolutely requisite to unique intellectual insights and differing perspectives. Although skin color may to some degree be correlated with such, correlation does not prove causation. If there is any degree of correspondence, it sure as hell is not derived from checking a box”</p>

<p>Just as NearL observed, mifune depends on some rather laughable straw-man arguments. They are so laughably unintelligent it shouldn’t merit a reasoned response. </p>

<p>Nobody is saying skin color is a requisite to “intellectual insights and differing perspectives” per se. When will you overcome your insecurity and bitterness to realize that it is not about that, but simply about the fact that colleges desire to have a DIVERSE student body in the CLASS they create. This is not limited to race, but extends to geographical location, interests,etc. Why do you think colleges like to brag about “we have students from all 50 states and a billion foreign countries”. I’m sure you wouldn’t have the same unintelligent vehemence against colleges who practice preference for students from certain underrepresented states as you do for affirmative action (although a formal affirmative action like you envision doesn’t exist). But according to your unintelligent and insecure tirades, this would mean “Why, of course, these students did not choose to live in these states by their own choice. Yet they get preference over other students. This is “statism” (racism but applied to geographical residence, lol) Statism is evil because it says people from one state are superior to people from other states. OMG MY LIFE IS SO UNFAIR. THAT KID FROM ALASKA TOOK MY SPOT TO WHICH I WAS CLEARLY ENTITLED TO. MY 2400 SAT PROVES IT. WHO CARES IF I HAVE NO OTHER REDEEMING QUALITIES. IF THAT KID FROM ALASKA WASN’T ACCEPTED, I WOULD HAD OBVIOUSLY BEEN OFFERED HIS/HER SPOT”</p>

<p>Many of you 16,17 year old CC addicts don’t realize you have yet to understand even a thing about the college admissions process, despite the fact that you’ve spent thousands of hours and posted billions of posts on a college admissions forum. The irony is rather astounding. </p>

<p>Another eloquent but substantively lacking quote from mifune.
“That is, you have conceded that you do not believe in the equality of those applying for admission, which directly suggests that you are invariably hidebound in your belief racial minorities are superior to those of Asian or Caucasian descent.”</p>

<p>Mifune like alot of insecure CCer’s do not even understand what the concept of “equality” in admissions even means. And that’s because an objective measure of “equality” in the common sense does not even exist. Colleges want different things and have different objectives in creating class. Some colleges want to increase the number of engineers, while others want to increase the number of artists, and still others want more kids from Idaho, while another college might seek more first-generation college students, and so forth. </p>

<p>Just because a college might want more kids from Idaho does not mean that colleges think that kids from Idaho are intrinsically “superior” to other students. Yet this flawed thinking is perpetuated by mifune, pigs<em>at</em>sea and other clueless CCers whose applications, though academically impressive, may demonstrate that they have nothing unique to offer to the diverse campus community other than their bitterness and insecurity.</p>

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<p>Fiiiiiiiixed</p>

<p>Pigs…have you been admitted anywhere yet? I’m too lazy to look past the first page of your recent posts and didn’t see it. Because, wherever it is…I’m going to pray my child is admitted there too so we can creep on you because YOU CRACK ME UP and you are the type student with which my D would LOVE to spend 4 years. 800 in writing? Twice? Yeah, I get that. (12 in all your essays too, right?).</p>

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<p>This is one of the many reasons I have started to stop myself from participating in these debates. This statement is absolutely true. In the Affirmative Action debate, there are many misconceptions. This is one of them. There are others.</p>

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<p>Well yeah, that just about describes it actually.</p>

<p>So do some of you guys actually think the way Mifune writes is eloquent and not just wordy and ridiculous? </p>

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<p>Who starts a sentence with “As of current”?</p>

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<p>Ok, “degree of their individual merit”? Why “degree”? Moreover, you use the pronouns “he or she” to refer back to “minorities”. This is CC, normally I don’t care about this sort of thing, but Mifune, you just come of as long-winded and pompous. Plus, some poor people seem to take your overuse of big words as meaning your arguments make sense and are well-informed.
Get a copy of Strunk & White. Read some Orwell. And read [url=<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html]this[/url”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html]this[/url</a>], too.</p>

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I think this point is a lot more important than some people on this thread might think. I think it could very well be that these quads would have been admitted if they were white or Asian. Yale admits people who are cool and interesting in some way, as long as they are qualified enough. The idea of quads that are all qualified is interesting (even if some of them are a bit more qualified than the others). It’s not exactly a publicity stunt; it’s just one of the things that makes for an interesting student body.</p>

<p>So, in my opinion, all the AA discussion in this thread may be beside the point with respect to these particular students.</p>

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oh actually they have! they do a lot of controversial social-political stuff</p>

<p>Anybody read the second article?</p>

<p>If you did, aren’t you surprised at the statement made by the dean that</p>

<p>if twins (or triplets, or quadriplets) apply with similar stats</p>

<p>they prefer not to give different decisions?</p>

<p>Somehow amazed me. I think its the right way to go though.</p>

<p>I’m a twin myself, and I think i would feel better if both of us get the same decisions</p>

<p>My bro is a bit better than me at everything and this somehow comforts me </p>

<p>or am I misunderstanding the article?</p>