<p>If Sybbie ever writes a book about college admissions, I’ll buy it for everyone I know!</p>
<p>My 2 cents.</p>
<p>It’s perfectly reasonable for a kid to feel some disappointment that he/she didn’t reach a goal. The OPs son has done very well to date, seemingly has a bright future, and wishes things had worked out at the ivies or comparable institutions. But, the idea that he will now lose motivation, cease to work hard, and throw away that bright future because he is “only” a scholaraship recipiant at the University of Minnesota–a school which makes every list of Top 100 national universities in existence–strikes me as an extreme overreaction, whether on his part or, as could be the case, on the part of the OP. If it’s his reaction, it will likely pass in a few weeks as he gets into the flow of the U. If it’s the parents’ reaction, well, I have a very hard time with that. He’s going to a terrific place, and your parenting doesn’t need to be validated by an ivy admission. </p>
<p>I really don’t mean to be flip, but the words of an old Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young song seem to apply here. "Don’t be angry. Don’t be sad. Don’t sit cryin’ for good time you had. There’s a girl right next to you. And she’s waiting for something to do…Turn your heartache into joy. She’s a girl and you’re a boy…And if you can’t be with the one you love honey, love the one you’re with.</p>
<p>“That doesn’t sound like someone who’d flourish in an Ivy atmosphere because the students there are very self motivated by the love of learning, not by the idea of getting some kind of reward because of good grades.”</p>
<p>I agree with this and it’s one reason that we, as parents, were not keen on the ivy idea for our son. It needs repeating, I guess, that this was his idea, not ours. As a mom, I kept trying to tell him that it was more important to find out what he was really curious about. Curious enough that he’d want to set aside recreational things, just to follow that curiousity. I don’t know if he’s discovered that yet, but I hope he does. Personally, I think that’s way more important than what school you go to or whether you go to school at all. </p>
<p>I think it will work out well for our son at the U of Minnesota. For us as parents, it’s really great: cheaper, great education, no travel hassels, etc. I’ve shared with him some of the posts that pointed out some of the research opportunities he may have. </p>
<p>All said though, I do empathize with my son’s disappointment. We really didn’t have a clue that our son was so bright until he received the National Merit Scholarship award. When you realize that millions of kids compete for this award and your child is one of only 2500 who receive it, you kind of think, OMG he is bright. </p>
<p>When we got the letter, I didn’t even realize how exclusive this award is and just tossed it aside in a pile of papers. Later it dawned on me that maybe the deadline for responding was approaching and I picked it up to review. Shocked that the deadline was that day, I phoned NMSC and said I hadn’t replied because my son wasn’t accepted to the preferred school and then she started to tell me what a huge honor this was and I had to quickly scramble to fax in the acceptance. True story. </p>
<p>So when your child is placed in that kind of a grouping, you do start to feel that they probably are pretty “deserving.”</p>
<p>Some of the links here have been very helpful. There are lots of “derserving” kids thriving in many places and it’s great to focus on that.</p>
<p>Re U of MN: the Gourman report ranks it 23rd for its undergrad physics program. I’m curious why the OP thinks the program is weak (because I also have a son interested in physics and is considering applying to MN).</p>
<p>I agree with the other posters. sybbie, great job. </p>
<p>Whenever we dredge up an archive I have a little quiver that maybe I said something even dumber than usual. :eek: Thank goodness I found this one as my main contribution to one of sybbie’s featured threads. I believe it is apropos here. </p>
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<p>Funny. The chiclet stayed that same way even after the acceptances to the reaches .(Of course the cash helped.;)) </p>
<p>Build it from the bottom up. Set realistic admissions and financial safeties at schools she can see herself attending that meet her needs both immediate and longterm (in her case, a critical mass of smart kids who were enthused about learning that she could push and be pushed by, and great grad and med school results). Then ratchet it up a notch or three in student accomplishment, location, reputation, research opps, study abroad, whatever. After that, let go as many flyers as you like . If the kid has fully bought into the system , it is truly nothing but gravy.</p>
<p>to helping mom: I really don’t know where we got the idea that the U of M was weaker in Physics. One of the things I was looking for was some better tool for evaluating schools by major, so I’m grateful to know that Gourman has a pretty high rating for them. The U is consistently in the top tier for Chemical Engineering, I did know that.</p>
<p>peegeo4: I am definitely NOT an expert, but I’ve been researching trying to find a good fit for my son. If you haven’t looked at it, the American Institute of Physics has a very informative website. This link gives a roster of all undergrad physics depts in the US:<a href=“Statistics - AIP.ORG”>Statistics - AIP.ORG;
<p>Our guidance counselor gave us a list of the Gourman report rankings for undergrad physics. They were:</p>
<p>The following is a list of schools that have been ranked (in order
1-35) in Physics:
California Institute of Technology
Harvard and Radcliffe College
Cornell University
Princeton University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
University of California - Berkeley
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
Columbia University
Yale University
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of California - San Diego
University of California - Los Angeles
University of Pennsylvania
University of Wisconsin - Madison
University of Washington
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor
University of Maryland - College Park
University of California - Santa Barbara
University of Texas - Austin
Carnegie Mellon University
University of Minnesota
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Brown University
Johns Hopkins University
Michigan State University
University of Notre Dame
State University of New York at Stony Brook
Case Western Reserve University
Northwestern University
University of Rochester
University of Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania State University - University Park
University of Colorado - Boulder </p>
<p>Of course, rankings are not everything, but using some of these resources
has been helping our search.</p>
<p>
We had the same concerns for our son until his freshman year of college, when he took an amazing class (in the honors program at his large state university) taught by a graduate professor with a passion for his work. Our son spent the first weeks of that class bemoaning the heavy workload. He finally accepted that he was going to have to work very hard and begrudgingly pitched in. By mid-semester, he was going to the library to do “a little” extra research, beyond what had been assigned, and visiting the professor during office hours to ask more questions. Ultimately, the only thing he regretted about the class was that it ended. </p>
<p>I don’t know whether our son will ultimately end up in a career related to that first course but I think he might. I do know he developed a passion for learning - as opposed to making good grades - that will make a difference for the rest of his life.</p>
<p>Thanks helping mom for the info. Our guidance department had nothing like that and I did ask a few times. Had I known, I might have encouraged an app to the University of Illinois too.</p>
<p>Don’t forget UW Madison. They have a top physics program and a reciprical tuition agreement with MN. </p>
<p>We are in the opposite boat where I have a S who has the grades, scores and ECs for an Ivy as a reach, but he doesn’t want to apply to them. Wants to stay in the midwest and doesn’t like Northwestern as an option. Looking at his list I think that he has several matches, so I think things will be fine. It’s his decision to make, not mine.</p>
<p>UW Madison is a great option. My nephew and his wife are PhDs doing research there and I love the campus. My son wouldn’t consider it because he didn’t like some of the people from his H.S. who were going there. Silly, considering the size of the place, but at 18 they know it all.</p>
<p>As a Univ. of Illinois alum, I can tell you all their engineering programs are very highly ranked (and especially civil engineering, my undergrad major), and most of the sciences are, as well.</p>
<p>Peege, no disrespect intended, but I wouldn’t DREAM of relying on our HS’s GCs for things like college rankings, or detailed help with the appplication process. Although our school does keep a research libarary that probably has many of those rankings in it for the non-internet-savvy parent.</p>
<p>The internet, OTOH, puts almost all these published rankings and a lot of other research and forums like this at our fingertips. It’s a shame you (or your son) didn’t discover these resources sooner. Still - all this is equivalent to figuring out how to secure the barndoor after the horses have all escaped.</p>
<p>I second the recommendation that sybbies post #134 be titled “CC Wisdom Gained From the Trenches” and be used as a permanent sticky on the main CC page. This should be “required reading” for all who come to CC looking for college advice. Great job sybbie!</p>
<p>well of course I am going to be a Reed booster ( but I also did put in several good words for other MInn schools, including UMinn to be fair)</p>
<p>I didn’t attend a 4 yr college- neither did my husband.
THe process was brand new to me & we expected and got, little help from her school advisior. Her school was really too small to have college center/offical counselor/career center etc.
Reed was the only private school my D applied to, and the one I know the most about. I did the research myself.
I didn’t even know enough to ask at her school, I just figured we would have to figure it out ourselves.</p>
<p>And frankly, that is what is irritating me most about this thread, not just that the student thinks he is a big fish in a little pond, and that the most competitve schools in the country are just waiting for him to walk through the door, he is young, and has a skewed perspective.</p>
<p>BUt counselors, at least in most schools, have a hella lot more to do than to find good fits for their most talented students. They may have a student who is being abused, and trying to get her in a safe place, or a student who should attend college, but the parents are against it.
If the college process is being left up to the student- then the consequences of that- are going to be experienced. Thats the way that life works, you make decisions and you live with them</p>
<p>I am a big believer in do it yourself.
I research medical treatments and care- and ask questions- The doctor has the diploma, but how much can they do in 8 minutes a visit?
A college counselor is not going to live with the college choices of the high school students, the people who have the most to lose ( or gain) from the experience, are the ones who have the most invested, and should be the most motivated to research schools.</p>
<p>It isnt like it is hard.
Libraries- a ton of books being published every year, and ever heard of the internets?</p>
<p>If I - a high school dropout could find " one of the NEW ivies" ( rofl) for my daughter to attend, couldn’t parents who are themselves college educated learn how to point and click as well?</p>
<p>I hear you about not going to a school because they don’t like someone who is going there. I tried to explain to my son that I had two cousins at Madison the same time I was there and unless we made a date we never saw each other.<br>
Such is the advantage (or disadvantage) of a BIG campus.</p>
<p>I’m sure that your son will like UM; it is a good school. My sister-in-law and her husband just transfered onto the faculty there and they say that it has a very good academic culture.</p>
<p>“If I - a high school dropout could find " one of the NEW ivies” ( rofl) for my daughter to attend, couldn’t parents who are themselves college educated learn how to point and click as well?"</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s fair to blame the parents. It’s the S’s life and future. Since he’s smart enough to get into U Minn.‘s honors college and to feel he had decent chances at an Ivy, he also is smart enough to have researched and handled the college application process better. It’s not his parents’ fault that he picked a safety that he doesn’t like.</p>
<p>No it isn’t- but repeated in this thread are complaints about information that they didn’t have because the high school counseling office didn’t give it to them.
If someone doesn’t give you something and you need it- you either get it someplace else or shrug and say “oh well”.</p>
<p>and sometimes you don’t know what you need! - especially if you are a 17 YEAR OLD KID, who has had no experience in applying to colleges!</p>
<p>right I agree that most 17 year olds are going to need help- with a lot of things
Obviously these parents are hands off- to not even know that their child was possibly eligible for NMS
But free information is out there, and even if you don’t want to be a helicopter parents, there is a lot of room between second guessing your childs every decision, and totally staying out of the process.
After all, I assume the parents are paying for this? Why would you not research yourself something that is going to be a huge financial investment?</p>
<p>*Yes, we probably should have encouraged him to do more in preparation for the SAT II or better yet, his guidance couselor should have told him this was more important</p>
<p>During the app process, I did try to get more involvement from our school guidance counselor, because I was very concerned that our son would not get into those top schools. My husband and I get the Wall Street Journal and have read for years about the high quality kids who don’t get in, so we were prepared. I repeatedly asked for help identifying some schools that would fall in between the MITs of the world and the U of M and they never had a suggestion.</p>
<p>es, I think we are reticent in Minnesota to give our children all the latest advantages in terms of counseling and preparation that are very common on the coasts and Chicago. I still have some personal reservations about that being the way to behave.</p>
<p>Our public school had much more confidence than we had that our son would get into one of his choices and we were swayed by them</p>
<p>The counselors knew of our son’s interests in his freshman year, yet they didn’t tell him that he should plan on seeking an AP class outside of school. </p>
<p>We really didn’t have a clue that our son was so bright until he received the National Merit Scholarship award. </p>
<p>Thanks helping mom for the info. Our guidance department had nothing like that and I did ask a few times. Had I known, I might have encouraged an app to the University of Illinois too.*</p>
<p>“If someone doesn’t give you something and you need it- you either get it someplace else or shrug and say “oh well”.”</p>
<p>This works only if you know that the issue exists.</p>
<p>For example, in my daughter’s school, the guidance department does not provide any information about SAT II tests to 9th and 10th grade parents, even though some of their kids might be in a good position to take some of these tests at the end of the school year. (For example, some 10th graders take AP U.S. History and would have a very good chance of getting high scores on the SAT II U.S. History test.) Because the GCs don’t provide the information, only the kids from savvy families end up taking the test. The others never even inquire about it because they don’t realize that the situation exists. They don’t have the choice to search or shrug. They can only feel bad many months later when they realize that they missed an opportunity they did not know existed.</p>