quarter/semester overlap financial aid question

Paying for College
1

<p>Interesting situation. I’m a student at UC Davis getting ready to graduate, but am holding off in order to tie-up a few loose ends for Phi Beta Kappa. But that requires that I take a couple courses at the old JC. My tentative plan is to take winter quarter at Davis which ends in early March, and enroll at Riverside CC in mid-February for the semester session ending in June. </p>

<p>My question has to do with financial aid. I need financial aid at both institutions in order to stay afloat. I’m already set for winter quarter at UC Davis, but was planning on filing for aid at RCC until after the winter quarter is over. There is about a three week overlap. Does anyone have any experience with or insight on this? </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>The overlapping by a few weeks is an odd situation. And the fact that you are about ready to graduate with a Bachelors and are going to go to a CC is also odd. In fact the whole thing is just odd. I am not a financial aid officer but offhand can see some potential problems.</p>

<p>Check into the following before you implement your plan:

  1. You generally are not eligible to get federal financial aid at two schools at the same time.
  2. Many schools require you to do a certain number of your final credit hours at their school to get a bachelors degree from them. If you leave UC Davis in March and take some classes at the CC are you sure you can still get your degree from UC Davis? (I know my daughter’s school requires that at least the last 30 credit hours be taken in the school - more for some departments).
  3. Once you have the number of credit hours and meet the requirements needed to graduate you will become ineligible for certain federal aid such as the Pell grant. Even if you delay graduation you become ineligible for the Pell once you meet the requirements. It is for students who have not met the requirements for a bachelors. Don’t think this applies to other federal aid.
  4. To get federal aid at a school you must be enrolled as a degreee seeking student at that school. Are you planning to enroll at the CC as a degree seeking student.
    5.You may find you are ineligible for any sort of aid at the CC anyway. Schools have a thing called SAP (Satisfactory Academic Progress). One of the requirements is usually that you have not already attempted more than a certain multiple of the credit hours required for a degree at their institution. for instance at our local CC the multiple is 150%. This means that if a degree at the school requires 60 credit hours then once a student has attempted >90 hours (cumulatively at any school) they are no longer eligible for financial aid at that school. If you are close to graduating at a 4 year school you may have way to many credit hours. </p>

<p>You really need to sit down with both an adviser and a financial aid officer (at both schools) and make sure you are not shooting yourself in the foot - before you do this.</p>

<p>Your question is definitely unusual and I would be really interested to hear what you find out so report back.</p>

3

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<p>Are you saying that you are deferring graduation to take CC courses for something related to Phi Beta Kappa?</p>

<p>I would have to ask…why?</p>

4

<p>You have to be in a regular, degree seeking program of studies in order to receive federal aid. Taking a couple classes at the JC means you will be a GUEST STUDENT … and therefore NOT eligible for federal aid at that school.</p>

5

<p>Issues #1 and #2 I already knew. However, 3–5 I’ll need to look into. </p>

<p>I understand the oddity of it all. The situation was this. I currently have 212 units as a PoliSci / History double. I should be graduating in December, but ended up with a problem with the Writing Proficiency requirement for graduation. I had been erroneously informed earlier this fall that my 100 page honors thesis for which I received high honors satisfied the WP component, but just a few days ago was told that this was incorrect. I went in to speak with the director of undergraduate advising at the College of L&S at UCD about the issue, and her advice was to take the WP course in winter but delay graduation until June since I was missing a single qualification for Phi Beta Kappa, i.e., a second semester of a foreign language (IGETC only required one semester to enter the UC system while PBK requires a full year). She said that it would be cheaper and easier to get into if I just went to a JC to take the course there, and graduate in June. My GPA and other requirement for PBK are more than adequate. But while there, I figured I’d take a full load in order to get full student aid. But it seems I’ll have to look into this a bit further before implementation. Thanks!</p>

6

<p>Would I still be eligible the CA Board of Governor’s Waiver (BOGW) at least?</p>

7

<p>“You have to be in a regular, degree seeking program of studies in order to receive federal aid. Taking a couple classes at the JC means you will be a GUEST STUDENT … and therefore NOT eligible for federal aid at that school.”</p>

<p>So, federal aid is unidirectional, i.e., you can carry federal aid to higher institutions (JC to university), but not the other way round? I didn’t know that.</p>

8

<p>You have to be enrolled in a degree seeking program. That is what Kelsmom said. If you are taking a couple of course at the CC, you would NOT be enrolled in a degree program there. You ARE enrolled in a degree program at your university…thus you can get the federal aid for that program. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the “direction” you are heading in. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you will not be a matriculated student at the CC. You will be a guest taking a couple of courses there.</p>

<p>Why don’t you just stay a final term in the spring at your current university and take the writing course, and whatever it is to satisfy your Phi Beta Kappa requirement, and another course or whatever it will take to be full time THERE?</p>

9

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That is not what Kelsmom said at all. It has nothing to do with being directional. A student who goes to a 4 year university for a semester or two then transfers to a CC and enrolls at that CC as a degree seeking student would be eligible for federal aid (as long as they meet the CC’s SAP which generally includes not having excessive credit hours). A student that goes to the same CC just to do a couple of classes is not eligible for aid at that school. It would be the same if you were just doing a couple of classes at another 4 year school. Unless you are considered a degree seeking student you are not eligible for aid. With 212 credit hours I imagine most CCs will not consider you a degree seeking student.</p>

10

<p>“Why don’t you just stay a final term in the spring at your current university and take the writing course, and whatever it is to satisfy your Phi Beta Kappa requirement, and another course or whatever it will take to be full time THERE?”</p>

<p>Because to take a single course as an enrolled student at UCD, I’d still have to pay at least part-time tuition, or around $1900, and that’s if the college approves me for part time status. Otherwise, it’s upwards of $3,500. Moreover, I wouldn’t qualify for aid due to my lack of units.</p>

<p>But, it doesn’t seem as if my initial plan will work anyway, so I’ll have to think of something else. Perhaps I’ll just bite the bullet and pay out-of-pocket for the course, but in this economy, money is pretty tight. If you folks have any suggestions, I’d love to hear them. Thank you very much for all your help.</p>

11

<p>BTW, just thinking, because graduation at the UC officially requires one year of foreign language, and I only have one semester, can an argument be made that a second semester of foreign language at the JC is in fact a degree-seeking program? </p>

<p>Technically, with the IGETC, it’s only one semester, but I haven’t actually applied for IGETC through either school.</p>

12

<p>NO…taking the course at your UC for credit counts because you are ENROLLED IN A DEGREE SEEKING PROGRAM THERE. If you take that foreign language course ANYWHERE else, you will be considered a guest student taking ONE course…not a matriculated student seeking a degree.</p>

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<p>So…if you don’t “graduate” at the end of this term, wouldn’t you just continue as a full time student, take the courses you need, and then you would be eligible for your aid.</p>

<p>DD is a student right now. She has had the required NUMBER of credits to graduate for a YEAR (she is currently a senior…just like you). BUT just like you, she does not have some (note SOME…not ALL…SOME) of the courses she needs to fulfill her degree requirement. She is finishing her course of study at her current college, not trying to take the courses elsewhere. As a matter of fact, her college will not ALLOW her to take courses her senior year elsewhere to fulfill course requirements for graduation. She is required to take the in residence at her school. You might want to check that.</p>

<p>I still suggest you stay put, take the courses you need and be done with it. Many students finish the courses to fulfill their degrees and then stay to graduate in May or June with their class…they take other courses related to their field of study…or some courses that they are interested in taking. </p>

<p>I would recommend a course in Personal Finance…every student should take that anyway. And your foreign language course, and that Phi Beta Kappa course thing…and one other course. POOF…full time and you would continue to get your aid there, right?</p>

<p>AND help me understand something…FIRST you told us you were taking a term of foreign language and some course to fulfill something for Phi Beta Kappa…now it’s just the language course.</p>

13

<p>“NO…taking the course at your UC for credit counts because you are ENROLLED IN A DEGREE SEEKING PROGRAM THERE.” </p>

<p>Then the question I need to ask the college is what constitutes a “degree-seeking program” there. I already know that transferring courses from a JC to a major degree program at UCLA constituted a degree-seeking program at both schools. My wife did as much when we financed her academic career several years ago (half of it through federal aid). Likewise in my early academic career. Indeed, this is obviously a more complicated situation than I initially thought considering the conflicting advice I’m getting from various sources. I’ll be in Southern CA through Monday, so I’ll see what they say. I’ll let you know what happens.</p>

<p>“So…if you don’t “graduate” at the end of this term, wouldn’t you just continue as a full time student, take the courses you need, and then you would be eligible for your aid.”</p>

<p>No, because my unit accumulation is too high. If I went full-time through June (perhaps even March), I’d be well above the maximum and liable to be kicked out. I know a friend who is currently undergoing this issue (in fact, he is being denied registration a mere one course shy of a second major). </p>

<p>“AND help me understand something…FIRST you told us you were taking a term of foreign language and some course to fulfill something for Phi Beta Kappa…now it’s just the language course.”</p>

<p>Sure. Under normal circumstances, a student requires a full year of a foreign language to graduate from a UC; however, because I qualify for the IGETC (but have yet to apply for it), the university will “allow” me to graduate with only a semester. Yet, for PBK, the requirement is the equivalent of one year of foreign language (i.e., the lose ends heretofore mentioned). This is the course I was advised by UCD advising to take at a JC and is the only thing preventing me from getting in. The director understood my precarious situation in terms of units, but also wanted to see me enter PBK (especially after so much hard work keeping my GPA > 3.9). However, I have not applied for the IGETC yet, although UCD advising knows I plan to. The JC doesn’t, so I’m hoping they will deem the course “degree-seeking.” I kinda doubt they will considering the information swimcatsmom, kelsmom, and yourself graciously provided. But, with the economy the way it is, I need all the help I can get. </p>

<p>Ultimately, this has nothing to do with matriculation. I know I can get into the school. Students do it all the time when a particular course is full at UCD. This has to do with financial aid which I admit is a bit of a stretch. Thanks.</p>

<p>Have a Happy Thanksgiving!</p>

14

<p>gary, it sounds as if your friend with the double major is in a slightly different situation. He already has finished the requirements for one degree but needs to take one course to get a second major. If the foreign language you lack is a universal requirement for any degree (barring waivers) you are ineligible for a degree without it, correct? You should check with advising on this point - it doesn’t seem that they would bar you from registering when you’re not degree eligible. If you actually apply for the waiver, that might be a different story.</p>

<p>From UCD’s website:</p>

<p>Certification of Full-Time Status. Undergraduate students must carry a study load of at least 12 units (including workload units) each quarter in order to be certified as full-time students for insurance and financial aid purposes or to compete in intercollegiate athletics.</p>

<p>So, you could take only 4 courses and still qualify for full time aid. Or taking 6 credit hours would still make you Pell eligible. What type of financial aid are you concerned about?</p>

<p>It’s not a “degree seeking program” - it’s a degree granting program that is the standard. If you’re taking one course at the JC, you’re not enrolled in a degree granting program from that institution (and also don’t meet the definition of half time enrollment for a Pell grant). </p>

<p>In the end, I think you have to decide whether the Phi Beta Kappa designation is worth going to the extra time and expense for. If you can’t afford it, then you may have to let it go and apply for the waiver.</p>

15

<p>Gary…post 14 sums it up. You are not enrolling in the JC to get ANY kind of degree. You want to take ONE course there to fulfill a requirement of the school UCD where you ARE enrolled for a degree.</p>

<p>I’m very sorry but I do not understand your argument about not just finishing at UCD and taking a full course load there (with the finaid continuing). There are LOTS AND LOTS of students who graduate with MANY more credits than their degree requires. This can be for many reasons…maybe they took courses in the summer, had a lot of AP credits, or took course overloads in a number of terms. They STILL can continue to take courses until they fulfill their degree and graduation requirements. YOU SAY YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS. Is that correct? According to your post, you need a term of foreign language. So…take that…AND two or three other courses (whatever it takes to have full time status). </p>

<p>Honestly, I do not understand why you cannot do this.</p>