<p>I suggest people to read more and not trust anybody explicitly. At least have some knowledge.</p>
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<p>I’m with those who say BIL shouldn’t be mixing the matter of dealing with what was his mother’s money and her wishes with his dealings with his sister.</p>
<p>They are two completely separate matters and mixing them together, especially by using his control over that joint account as leverage is IMO, abuse of his powers. </p>
<p>Just because the loaner ends up needing that money sooner is no justification to making that need his loanee’s problem, especially when she has kept up her end of the deal by making timely current payments per the agreement BIL’s & his WIFE MADE UP and AGREED TO. </p>
<p>IMHO, BIL needs to man up and suck it up as he shouldn’t be unilaterally changing the terms of the agreement when the reasons had nothing to do with the loan agreement or the actions of the loanee. </p>
<p>To some extent, BIL’s reasoning here is similar to that of a college classmate who wanted to retroactively increase her hourly tutoring charge on another friend because she had accumulated too many library fines. No surprise she was laughed out of the room by my friend as he correctly stated her accumulating library fines has nothing to do with him or their agreement and thus, is no justification for changing it or for him to pay the difference after previous sessons already took place. </p>
<p>I say this as someone who is still owed thousands from a few loans extended out to friends over the years and from assisting an executor in closing out his family’s estate.</p>
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<p>She now is in a pharmD program. She has the loans for that. </p>
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Just curious, did the sister buy their house before dau went to college or after she borrowed the money from her brother?</p>
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<p>the money was borrowed when niece was an undergrad…she graduated before my younger son. The house was bought a couple of years ago…about the same time niece graduated from college. It was a great deal that SIL’s realtor husband found (one of those foreclosure deals). They sold their own home for a nice profit and bought this fixer-upper. </p>
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<p>Did your niece consider DO schools? Has she lost interest in medicine.</p>
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<p>lol…I could write a book about some of the weird/strange financial decisions they have made over the years. </p>
<p>She wouldn’t consider DO schools. She’s now in a PharmD program. There are parts of this country that have barely heard of DO’s. </p>
<p>@cobrat </p>
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<p>They are two completely separate matters and mixing them together, especially by using his control over that joint account as leverage is IMO, abuse of his powers.</p>
<p>Just because the loaner ends up needing that money sooner is no justification to making that need his loanee’s problem, especially when she has kept up her end of the deal by making timely current payments per the agreement BIL’s & his WIFE MADE UP and AGREED TO.</p>
<p>IMHO, BIL needs to man up and suck it up as he shouldn’t be unilaterally changing the terms of the agreement when the reasons had nothing to do with the loan agreement or the actions of the loanee.</p>
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<p>I agree.</p>
<p>Really, I think what this boils down to: BIL has 4 grown, spoiled kids. He sent them all to private undergrad and masters programs…all on the parents’ dimes. They have never had jobs, not even part-time jobs. Those 4 kids have every excuse in the book not to work. They’re still “finding themselves” lol (in NYC and Boston and abroad! how fun! but $$$$$) So, instead of doing a little Tough Love with his kids (get a job!), he’s looking for an end-run around the loan re-payment plan. </p>
<p>So, when I mentioned that BIL has had some financial set-backs, I don’t mean investment-wise or anything. His setback is that his kids won’t launch. </p>
<p>I can see each side of the issue. BIL has no right to expect repayment other than the loan terms, but seeing SIL get a lump sum, he wants it. SIL prefers the original terms, but hey the loan was a seriously generous offer and now BILs life situation has changed.</p>
<p>I think I like the compromise someone suggested earlier, BIL distribute the funds as he should, SIL pay back half the loan to give BIL a boost, but also herself. The total amount could easily have been half what it is now, so why not both benefit somewhat?</p>
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<p>Seems like this confirms that both BIL and SIL made poor financial decisions with respect to their kids and college, and the resulting financial strain on both of their household budgets is pressuring them to fight over the inheritance and the previous parental college loan by BIL to SIL.</p>
<p>Why did he think they needed to go to the same school?
That sheds a different light on it, still generous, but brother was also getting something out of it.
I’d probably try to make a lump partial payment, or whatever I could afford, but is it possible that the family is so close to the bone that they need inheritance for needs?</p>
<p>No matter how close we may be to some people, it’s unlikely for us to really know all the details of their finances or other family matters. We’ve been the subject of speculation by relatives over the years and there’s always been an element of either criticism or envy behind their judgments about how we do or don’t spend.</p>
<p>I hope it’s possible to persuade BIL to abide by his parents’ wishes and distribute their estate accordingly, without resorting to legal intervention. I do think SIL should repay the loan in full, regardless of what she or anyone thinks of BIL’s current choices. Admittedly, I hate being in debt and have always repaid anything owed as quickly as possible no matter what I had to do without. That would be particularly true if I borrowed from family instead of a bank or other lender.</p>
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<p>In short, the BIL is making his own problems which had little to do with the original loan agreement he and his wife drew up or his sister his sister’s. </p>
<p>And worse, the root of the loan was so his sister’s kid can attend the same college as one of his…so he actually benefited from extending that loan in the first place. Hmm…</p>
<p>Considering those factors, while it would be a nice gesture for the sister to use her inheritance to pay back the loan, the BIL is NOT ENTITLED to unilaterally change the terms of the written loan agreement, to DEMAND IT of her, or to DEEM HER AN “UNGRATEFUL” person for wanting to stick by the original agreement’s terms. </p>
<p>Especially considering it was the BIL who is manifesting his intention to NOT HONOR the terms of the original agreement he and his wife DREW UP and AGREED TO, NOT the sister who HAS MADE TIMELY PAYMENTS AND IS CURRENT PER THE AGREEMENT. Worse, he’s doing so by abusing his powers in controlling his deceased mother’s accounts and in the process, not honoring his mother’s wishes. </p>
<p>IMO, this makes the BIL exceedingly crooked and dishonorable, not the sister. </p>
<p>Attorney talk between family members is just a big NO in my book. It may stink in SIL’s eyes what BIL wants to do but she should graciously accept whatever he wants to do to keep family peace. He was kind enough to offer the money and she should want to be done with this loan if the money came available. </p>
<p>Taking the long view–whatever BIL & sis do (and don’t do) may well affect ALL extended family relations for a long time, including their kids’ interactions. It’s important to keep the big picture in mind and hope that BIL & sis are able to work out a nice compromise that will make both of them a bit more comfortable (or less uncomfortable).</p>
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<p>Generally anything in a trust is handled outside the probate process (as I understand it – not an attorney, just quite a bit of painful experience as an executor!). The trust generally has designated trustees, beneficiaries, and may have some rules set up for how the trust is to be invested, distributed, etc. </p>
<p>One kind of trust that is commonly used with estates that I have is a “pour over” trust. It is created, but sits empty until you die. Most of your assets (including property) can be set up to “pour over” into the trust when you die by setting the trust as the beneficiary of accounts. There was some other document I did for my house, forget the details offhand. The trust terms are all set up, just waiting for me to kick the bucket and my assets will flow into it. </p>
<p>If I forget an asset, or don’t keep up with new accounts or properties being handled correctly, then those items might end up in the probate process. Only accounts or assets over a certain value are candidates for probate as I understand it.</p>
<p>I find trusts sort of complicated, though, and definitely seek an attorney’s advice whenever I have to deal with one. The taxes for a trust (one that has money in it) require profession help, too, IMHO. </p>
<p>Testamentary trusts (trust created under a Will) are subject to probate. Any assets held in a living trust (created while you are alive) are not.</p>
<p>I don’t think BIL is exceedingly crooked, dishonorable or a snake because he is asking for the money back. I think it’s something that unfortunately wasn’t put into the loan agreements but should have been understood as a condition of the loan. If SIL won the lotto, BIL would be pretty upset if she chose not to pay him off out of his winnings and wanted to continue with the terms of repayment. I think it would pay to have conversations with both parties separately about the ultimate goal being intact family relations. SIL is probably going to have to suck this one up and forget about it. My husband was in business with his brother( I was against it from the get go) and as usual these things have a way of not working out. I don’t feel bad about not having a relationship with BIL and SIL but feel bad for the damage done to any normal cousin relationships between our kids. Not having to deal with my malignant narcissist BIL is a relief to me but it would still be better to have intact family relations.</p>
<p>The Executor may be entitled to a fee, depending on the State.</p>
<p><a href=“What type of compensation is an executor entitled to? - Law Offices of John W. Callinan”>http://www.eldercarelawyer.com/articles/estates/compsensation-for-executor.html</a></p>
<p>I recently completed my executor/trustee duties for my mother’s estate. It is the executor’s responsibility to distribute assets per the terms of the will/trust. I wholeheartedly agree with many above who state that BIL should not mix the estate distribution with the loan repayment. SIL and BIL then need to come to their own agreement on how to handle the loan repayment. Since BIL sounds like a PIA, if I was SIL, I would pay off the loan in full or accelerate the payment schedule.</p>
<p>In my case, if there is ever any question later about how the money was distributed, I wanted a ‘clean’ picture of what came in and what went out. So much so, that when I wanted to make the final distributions and close out the estate bank account, the bank said that they could only create one check to close the account. The bank wanted to make the check out to me and said that I could do the distributions from there from my account. That was not ‘clean’ enough for me. I chose to write the final distribution checks, and then once they all cleared and there was a zero balance, I contacted the bank to close the account.</p>
<p>As also mentioned above and at the attorney’s suggestion, I kept ~$15,000 in the checking account for the final tax bill. In my case, there was actually a tax refund due to the estate, but better to not have to go to heirs to ask for money back.</p>
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<p>If you had a living trust and when you die an irrevocable trust is created to move assets from the living trust to the new trust to be distributed by a previously established rule, does it go through probate?</p>
<p>Honestly, not sure Igloo -not really my area of practice. But my understanding is that assets in a living trust (which can be either revocable or irrevocable) have to be handled in strict accordance with the terms of the trust agreement. If the trust provides for distribution upon death of the Grantor, then beneficiaries will be taxed upon receipt of that distribution. Look to the terms of the original trust document to determine what options are available. Does the trust terminate upon Grantor’s death or does it continue with a successor trustee named in the document? </p>
<p>If it terminates upon death I am uncertain if you can transfer those assets into another trust without triggering a taxable event.</p>
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<p>I disagree. What’s the point of having a written agreement if the one drawing up the initial agreement unilaterally changes the terms midstream, especially when the other party has consistently held up her part of the agreement? </p>
<p>IMO, barring late payments or other violations of agreement on the part of the other party, unilaterally changing the terms of a contract…especially one drawn up by the one making the demand demonstrates a serious lack of integrity as the BIL is the one pulling the rug out from the sister by unilaterally changing the terms of a written agreement he and his wife drew up and the sister agreed to. </p>
<p>The fact he’s using the leverage of his being in control of distributing money from his mother’s assets and in the process, violating his mother’s expressed wishes and likely abusing his powers as the executor just adds to the dishonorable crookedness of his conduct here. Would I be correct in assuming such conduct could be considered illegal and even grounds to take his powers over his mother’s estate away and assigned to someone with more integrity to ensure the estate is distributed according to the wishes of the deceased. </p>
<p>While I don’t feel the BIL has any right to deduct the loan from the inheritance, I do think it’s kind of crummy that SIL is not considering using the money for repayment of the loan, if not totally, at least partially. If I have the timeline right…</p>
<p>BIL loans SIL money
SIL starts and continues repayment
SIL sell her home for a nice profit (stated in post 82)
SIL buys a fixer upper
SIL will receive inheritance</p>
<p>I would have a hard time looking a family member in the eye if I owed them money, and had twice received a payout and did not try to accelerate repayment. The way BIL manages his family or his level of affluence should have no bearing on the SIL’s need to clear her debt. Family members are not banks, they loan money to loved ones to be helpful, goodwill gestures. SIL doesn’t have to pay the debt off now, but she should want to pay it off, a goodwill gesture on her part. Choosing to buy a house that requires continued investments before paying off prior debts was really not the most sound financial move. If SIL doesn’t want to repay with the inheritance, perhaps now is the time to consider refinancing the debt through a bank and repaying her brother. Family harmony is worth a lot. </p>