<p>My D is interested in Rice and on paper, everything looks great except rank. </p>
<p>She is a junior at a very competitive suburban high school and based on her PSATs should be a NMF and National Hispanic Scholar. She has state and national level achievements/medals in humanities competitions. The usual ecs/awards…several honor societies, president of several clubs/committees, reporter/editor for school newpapers, tons of volunteer hours. She is a varsity cheerleader and a national champion competitive cheerleader (but is not interested in cheerleading in college at all). She founded a volunteer tutoring program (outside of school) which matches volunteer tutors with students in need. She will have 7-8 APs by the end of her senior year and should break 1500 on her SAT. She has been invited to apply for the Telluride Association Summer Program.</p>
<p>Her one problem is rank. She had a tough freshman year. I think she just skated easily through middle school getting straight As without applying herself and then hit the wall her freshman year. Got it together her sophomore year and junior year - straight As in all AP/Horizons level (except cheer). But because of freshman year, she will only be top 10% by graduation. (Darn we would love a ‘do over’ for that year!)</p>
<p>Should she even attempt an application at Rice? It is an important decision because if she designates Rice her first choice, generous NM scholarship offers from other colleges (Baylor) will evaporate. </p>
<p>Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated!!</p>
<p>I am interested in this, too, as my son who has never made less than an A now has a 3.89 which puts him under the top 20 percent in his class. He’s a junior.</p>
<p>Wow cowpernia…does he have a 3.89 on a 4.0 scale? </p>
<p>I don’t know about you but I find ‘rank’ to be a frustrating criteria. At my D’s school, kids are expert at manipulating rank. In our district, there are many required courses that are on level like PE, Fine Arts and Computer Technology… and a lot of the kids will not take these courses until senior year, so that their junior rank is artificially bolstered for college applications. And some kids will take above-level courses but not AP courses. Above-level and AP are weighted exactly the same, but getting an A in an AP course is far more difficult. Most of the kids ranked near the top have not gone near an AP class. My D’s is penalized for being a cheerleader because cheer is on-level or for taking that fun on-level Art class that provides her a creative outlet. And her rank may suffer this year if she gets a B in any of her very difficult AP or AP-Dual Credit classes. She is so stressed about getting A’s only because she is afraid someone will jump her in rank.</p>
<p>I do think college admissions counselors look beyond rank; but frankly, if they have to do that then why bother to consider rank at all?</p>
<p>Supposedly, some schools only want the top 10 percent. Yes, that’s a 4.0 scale and only 94 in the class. It’s a charter school and no one is there who didn’t ask to be. It’s going to be tough for him to get back into the top 10 percent in this group.</p>
<p>He doesn’t act stressed. I’m stressed! I’d be less stressed if I saw that it mattered to him, I guess.</p>
<p>aaah…the 3.89/20% makes sense now! Highly competitive school! I would think admissions counselors would put rank on the back burner for a school that competitive, as long as rank mirrors performance on standardized tests. </p>
<p>My daughter has 750 in her class! lol! Top kids haven’t taken any on levels (OR very many APs) and have made straight As. They are taking the middle road and playing it safe all the way to the top rank. But as I said in my first post, my daughter had a not-so-great freshman year (6.0 weighted) and even with 6.8 - 6.9 gpas her sophomore and junior years, she will still be sitting right on the cusp of top 10%. Hopefully, admissions counselors will consider the content of her work and the dramatic improvement in her grades.</p>
<p>laurensmom06, i got into rice ED…If Rice is your D’s first choice, definitely apply ED. Rice approaches the admissions process holistically. I am in the first decile at my highly competitive high school (top in Los Angeles County), which doesn’t precisely rank. Top 10% is definitely good enough to get into Rice. According to the viewbook, “76% of this year’s freshman ranked in the top 5% of their high school class.” Rank isn’t everything, as is scores…Plus by applying ED your D has a better chance. Also, you said, “break 1500 on her SAT”…does she have to take the new SAT…btw where are you from? good luck !!</p>
<p>Laurensmom, when you say “if she designates Rice first choice” do you mean on the National Merit Form? That form is kind of a smoke screen, they will possibly get a letter from the school they designate as first choice over the junior summer, but possibly not. Also, they can change the designated first choice well into the senior year (I can’t remember exactly when they can’t change anymore, but it is late). Will she get NM from Rice? My daughter didn’t apply there, so I don’t know if they give Nat’l Merit. We manipulated the NM form, one of the few things you can manipulate in this darn process - I would put down the school that is going to give her the most money as first choice, regardless of how she actually feels about it. The few highly selective schools that DD applied to that gave any money for NM, allowed you to change your designation. I wouldn’t worry too much about her rank if everything else shakes out, and ED will help.</p>
<p>laurensmom: Rank is just ONE factor. If she is good with SAT scores, she will be OK. If Rice is THE place she wants to go, you may try ED. I know a girl who made ED with commended status and 35th in the class. I know what you mean by middle of the road classes. Are you in Cy-Fair?..It is rather easy in that district to play the rank game without working hard.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about specifying Rice as your first choice school, you have till March-April to do so. and yes we have heard that Baylor gives full ride to NMS.</p>
<p>I was very concerned about this when I applied. Like the daughters described above, I went to an awesomely competitive high school (“awesome,” in this sentence, is not a positive). I had straight A’s and good test scores, but my class rank didn’t reach top 5%. I applied early and was accepted and now am sitting in my Rice dorm room telling you this. Class rank is not the be all and end all and I think Rice knows that. I could have been valedictorian at a different school. And that’s fine. I think the other attributes that are on the application can definitely outweigh a class rank.</p>
<p>PS. I also got merit scholarships at Rice - they are more numerous than Rice portrays, IMO. </p>
<p>PPS. Rice IS a National Merit School. Awards range from 750-2000 depending on financial need. They LOVE national merit scholars at Rice.</p>
<p>smazn - yes my D does have take the new SAT…her first sitting will be this March. On PSAT, she scored high 700s math, high 700s writing and about 700 critical reading…that new verbal section is a killer! I’m glad to hear Rice takes a pragmatic approach to rank! This will make her feel so much better! I do think ED is the way to go if she really wants Rice.</p>
<p>Cangel - I did not know that some highly selectives allowed you to change your designation on the NM form. This is good to know! Baylor gives a ton of money through their Regents Scholarships and Baylor would be good fit for her planned major (BioChemistry or Biology with med school intentions), though she would prefer Rice. Rice does give merit scholarships, but not on the scale of Baylor and I would imagine the competition for these scholarships is intense. I’m not sure if it wise to list them as first on the NM form.</p>
<p>Simba - How didya GUESS? lol! Yes we are in the Cy-Fair district and yes I agree totally with your assessment of the ‘rank game’. Overall, if D could gain acceptance to Rice with or without scholarship money, she would opt out of a full ride elsewhere. But I’m still concerned acceptance may be an issue. I am encouraged by smazn’s comments about their holistic admissions approach. Am I wrong to assume Rice admissions counselors will be very familiar with how individual districts compute rank, especially locally?</p>
<p>Jenskate - you sound exactly like my daughter. It has crossed my mind transferring her to a different district where she would easily be in the top 1% to 5%! (Only briefly though…lol!) Your comments about merit scholarships at Rice are VERY encouraging…their website makes it seem as though scholarships are few and far between! </p>
<p>May I ask your major? My D is interested in undergraduate work in biology or biochemistry. She is very interested in pediatric psychiatry or developmental pediatrics…fascinated by chromosomes, genetics and the study of autism spectrum disorders. I’ve considered asking some of the docs at the Meyer Center if they would speak to her about this career choice. (Our S has been treated at the Meyer Center.) I would love to find undergraduates with similar goals for her to speak to as well!</p>
<p>I have a feeling that Rice knows the Cy-Fair schools well. If I were you I’d put down Rice on the form if you are ED, and then feel free to change it if deferred or rejected. But if you apply ED and Baylor is on the form and you are accepted to Rice, then you won’t be eligible for Rice’s scholarships. All schools allow you to change the designation - until the spring.</p>
<p>2 random questions -
Is your daughter interested in Rice/Baylor? It’s a truly fantastic program, and I’d love to talk to her about it if she has any questions/interest in it.
Is she on science olympiad? I’m event coordinating at tomorrows competition, so if she’ll be there and wants to talk to a student, let me know (post back here, e-mail, or IM…my IM is the same as my name here).</p>
<p>EDIT: we crossed posts! I’m a pre-med, cognitive science major and I’m maybe going to do a double major in healthcare policy.</p>
<p>Texas Med Center is an AWESOME place to be next to for people interested in medical sciences and pre-med…SO MANY opportunities for research, shadowing, volunteering, etc. Definitely have her do the shadowing if she’s interested in that. In high school I shadowed a plastic surgeon for a day - it didn’t change my mind about not wanting to be a plastic surgeon, but it was VERY interesting, and VERY different from what I expected.</p>
<p>laurensmom, I think you should definitely have your daughter apply. I understand your position, because I also got straight As through elementary/middle school, and then when high school came, I had a rather sloppy freshman and sophomore year. Then once I started taking ap/ibs in my junior/senior year, I got straight As again.</p>
<p>My school is VERY competitive and huge, we have tons of AP classes, many classes for each AP, and different levels of classes for AP. There are also a lot of 4.0s at my school, who have all taken the most rigorous schedule possible all four years. I’m not a fan of rank at all-- someone could barely work and be a valedictorian at a laid-back school, whereas the same person can work very hard at my school and only be in the top 20%.</p>
<p>Your daughter seems to be very competitive to me, and I think she’ll have a good enough chance like a lot of other people applying. :D</p>
<p>jenskate - I WISH D was at Science Olympiad! They just returned from school cheer nationals which has really taken a lot of her time away from academics (read a little dismay here…lol). But yes she is very interested in Rice-Baylor Medical Scholars. I don’t think she has dared hope for admissions though…she has heard the program is very selective!! And I think shadowing sounds like a great idea! She also may have an opportunity to volunteer in the summer at a camp for austistic children if she doesn’t make it into TASP. I will definitely give D your im name…I’m sure she would love to chat with you.</p>
<p>Icymoon - It is nice to know someone else has had the same experience transitioning from middle school to high school. I think a great comeback is just as indicative of a student’s drive to succeed as consistent performance don’t you?? And D is most definitely competitive…I think her highlight experience was winning at gold medal at State History Day and a Bronze at National History Day at the University of MD. Though her first reaction at winning Bronze was…‘oh no, I have to come back next year for the gold!’…lol!</p>
<p>The K became same as AP only about 8-9 years ago, and I was there when it happened. I used to be semi-active in the board meetings, and at that time bunch of jock mothers raised a ruckus and K became same as AP. At that time and even up to 10th grade I had no clue of its implications or how to play the game. When we learned it was too late. Time to start the game is 7th grade !!</p>
<p>I think we learned too late as well. D is our oldest and we are learning lessons the hard way…trial and error. For instance, I allowed her take her on-level fine art requirement this year because I though it would be a nice break during the day from her strenuous classes and the long, long cheer practices. It didn’t occur to me to consider the rank implications of that move. And no counselor intervened or recommended otherwise. Btw, we were in the Tomball district at the time CFISD upgraded the K classes. Until today, I had no idea how that change had come about…it still doesn’t make sense to me! Really…how can K equal AP or AP-Dual??</p>
<p>Oh well…I guess we’ll do better at the game with our S who is a 6th grader. Silver lining!</p>
<p>6th grade, oh boy you can play the game with greatest freedom. Here is what one should do. Take as many High school on level classes in Jr. High. You get credit, but it does not count in GPA. Take all high school level summer classes between 6-7 and 7-8 summers (credit yes, GPA no), but never take any high school level classes between 8th and 9th grade summer(goes in your GPA). Take all Foreign language 1 and 2 in MS (e.g. Spanish 1 and 2), IPC etc. Do not take health till the last semester. If he is ahead take HS classes in 8th grade. His MS will provide the transportation.</p>
<p>The district did close one loophole. For ranking purposes (starting with 08 class), you must graduate recommended. (Your D could have ignored fine arts and graduated minimum, and it could have helped her rank).</p>
I understand your position, because I also got straight As through elementary/middle school, and then when high school came, I had a rather sloppy freshman and sophomore year. Then once I started taking ap/ibs in my junior/senior year, I got straight As again.</p>
Btw, we were in the Tomball district at the time CFISD upgraded the K classes. Until today, I had no idea how that change had come about…it still doesn’t make sense to me! Really…how can K equal AP or AP-Dual??</p>