Question for those of you who saw Hamilton

After watching the documentary, I have the impression that it was intentional from the start to have Jefferson’s song be jazz (and the other differences in style as well). Think about it… a bunch of guys in revolutionary dress, you need to think of ways to distinguish them (not as bad as a dozen dwarves like Peter Jackson was dealing with, but still!). It makes a lot of sense that an early decision was made to distinguish them by style.

I also think the fast pace of the music & lyrics allows them to pack a lot more into the length of the show than a typical musical. I need to get the book so I can check out the details of the lyrics – I have most of them, but there are few spots that I still can’t pick up. And I don’t want to miss any part of it.

^^^^I’ve read that Hamilton would run over 5 hours if it was all sung in traditional Broadway fashion.

I’ve never thought about that but I believe it! A couple songs are so wordy and quick and then they are moving and dancing while doing parts of it, too. I was exhausted for them!

LMM has said that rap/hip hop was the most efficient way to get al that information across. The words per minute is much higher than traditional Bway songs

Hello I’m new here and registered just to talk about Hamilton.

For the questions about casting, I’ve considered what an audience of the Founders would think, stipulating that they would each be fully cognizant that they are at a play, and they each know how the play will end, just as our audience knows how the duel turns out.

First, Ben Franklin (of course he’s invited!) would cackle with delight throughout the whole thing, and throw the world’s craziest cast party afterwards.

George Washington would sit stiffly in his seat at first, his jaw grimly set as the play opens, but by the time Aaron Burr presents himself to the General in “Right Hand Man” he would relax (slightly) and get into the spirit of the thing. GW might recognize before all the others that this rainbow of actors are in fact the logical conclusion of the idea of America.

Well, except John Laurens prob’ly got there first. Not sure how he’d respond to all the touchy-feely business between him and Hamilton. That part was pretty well kept under wraps back in the day. As far as I know.

Thomas Jefferson might well get up out of his seat at some point in the second act, saddle his horse, and ride straight down Broadway, not to stop until he arrives at Monticello. And who would blame him? (Sidenote: As I considered the treatment of TJ in this show, I thought at first that LMM went a little hard on him, but then I shrugged and figured he’s probably earned it, just this once)

Hamilton himself would be writing his rebuttals in the margins of his Playbill. He might need a new Playbill at intermission.

Burr (yes, he’s invited too) might think he got off easy, but is still seething that the play is called “Hamilton”.

The Schuyler sisters, being ladies of their time, would mostly keep their thoughts to themselves. Perhaps until they get to Ben’s cast party, that is.

And on a personal note, I read several play reviews/interviews in which people expressed astonishment that people like Dick Cheney! and other evil Republicans attended the play, knowing that the cast featured actors of color. My jaw actually dropped. It is a PLAY. With ACTORS. Chosen and CAST by a DIRECTOR. Pretty sure that even Dick Cheney could grasp that fact and even agree with the premise “America Then as played by America Now.”

The casting becomes irrelevant anyway after the first few moments, as you are swept into the story. The story you thought you remember from school but realize that some parts were missing, and now they are added to the whole, and the whole is SO MUCH LARGER than the sum of those parts.

I learned something about Hamilton last night that I didn’t know before, but maybe it is well known? I don’t know.

I was with my daughter who is starting the first draft of a new musical (writer, composer, lyricist) that is based on historical people and events and I asked her which role she plans to play (she is also an actor/singer/dancer), and she said she isn’t deciding or focusing too much on that yet. I asked wouldn’t she want to decide so she knows the voice part for that character? She said, no, she doesn’t work that way and that in fact, Lin-Manuel (whom she knows) originally was planning to play Burr when he was creating his musical.

I’ve read a few articles where LMM talks about going back and forth with himself about playing the Hamilton or the Burr role. Honestly, I don’t think he has the vocal chops to carry off the Burr role (sacrilege?) which is more demanding IMO. But, I guess as the writer he could have modified whatever role he decided on to fit him.

According to the Hamiltome, that big solo for Burr in The Room Where It Happens was added late, after the casting was done.

He certainly thought hard about playing Burr, yes, per his book and many interviews.

In the Hamiltome he notes that his favorite moment of playing Hamilton is in The Room Where It Happens, where Hamilton drops the mask and admits to grasping raw power. Which happens to be the most Burr-like moment.

Gotta think LMM’s background as the son of a well-connected political operative in NYC provided him with the proper grasp of the enormity of this deal.

@doschicos I heard LMM say in some interview (wish I remember where) that there was a point when he recognized that he wrote himself out having any chance to play Burr – knowing that he just doesn’t have that kind of a big voice.

I love this thread. We are obsessed with Hamilton in our house, from the parents to our 11 year old girls to our 16-year old son to our politically-savvy 19 year old who introduced us to the music this summer.

LMM is a genius. I love the tiny details like the sudden twang of banjo, or the jazz noted above, or the early characterization of Burr as a trust fund baby. The big details, like how the lyrics come together in Farmer Refuted, and the replay of Helpless and Satisfied. And the repeat of rifts or refrains at exactly the right moment to tie such a complex narrative (full of undercurrents and subtexts) all together. How about the fact that Hamilton’s friends in the first part become his adversaries or at least implicated in taking him down in the second. Lafayette becomes Jefferson, Mulligan becomes Madison, Peggy (“Peggy confides in me”) becomes Maria Reynolds, Laurens becomes Philip, for whom his heart breaks. In some way, Laurens dies because of Hamilton, then Hamilton dies because of Philip. Put this next to a very credible central group of characters including the king who don’t change. i love George Washington (I read that Johnson used to lead the cast in a centering, prayerful moment before every show) saying “Ayo” and the ferocity of the Cabinet Battles. As already noted, the founders come to life. It is stunning, breathtaking, absolute genius.

The part where Philip dies …I can’t even listen to it, it makes me think of the families I know who have lost their kids to violence. It reminds me so much of the tragedies in our community where kids go after each other, instead of the injustices that lead them into rivalries.

I don’t expect to see it anytime soon, tho maybe in a couple years the son who introduced us to it might get a ticket as a college grad gift? Fingers crossed. That’s okay, I am willing to wait for it :slight_smile: By the way the incredible irony that Burr goes against his character – and Hamilton throws away his shot – almost sounds like it evolved from the story itself, as the actors were already immersed in the play and the ending was nebulous all the way up until the opening days?

After learning more about the production itself, I am now more taken with the restraint of LMM and his collaborators. The third cabinet battle was omitted, and much text was shelved, to make it tighter and better. I am not surprised that LMM would hand over the Burr part. It’s like that made the show what it is, his ability to not only create but to accept the feedback and collaborate and sacrifice for the overall good of the show. Figuring out what was essential to the telling of the story, and letting some things go. The original casting was spot on, and it sounds like it even contributed to evolution of the play to its present form.

“It’s a thing unto itself - I have not yet heard of someone who didn’t like it.”

I know a few people (unrelated to one another) who disliked it. They can’t stand rap and couldn’t follow without being distracted. I am only sorry we couldn’t get tickets for the original.

I know its not a fair comparison between watching parts on the PBS special and watching it in real life on stage but there were at least 2 roles where I thought the non-original cast members I saw in September were better than the originals.

@doschicos Care to share who those were? :wink:

If you watch the video of LMM performing at the White House in 2009, he sings what ends up being modified to become the opening song for the musical (“Alexander Hamilton”). That original version was from Burr’s viewpoint.

Sure, @alwaysamom, granted it is just my very unprofessional opinion and again I don’t feel like tv/stage is a fair comparison but here they are:

Rory O’Malley as the King

Seth Stewart as Lafayette/Jefferson who was just an understudy when I saw it but who has stepped full-time into the role. I thought he was pretty amazing.

Brandon Victor Dixon as Burr. Not sure if I would go as far to say better but maybe I’d call it a draw. I don’t feel I missed out.

“By the way the incredible irony that Burr goes against his character – and Hamilton throws away his shot – almost sounds like it evolved from the story itself, as the actors were already immersed in the play and the ending was nebulous all the way up until the opening days?”

The first act was pretty easy, I imagine - the events were pretty well documented and “all” LMM had to do was figure out how to dramatize them. By the middle of the second act, the seas get much rougher with all the emotional stuff and now the waters are uncharted. Even now the historians are divided on what happened that day and why. So it is not surprising that the end was the hardest to write, and why it might have changed daily. Not to mention you have to end your show on this major down note. :frowning:

Thanks so much everyone for expressing your thoughts so eloquently. I’ve seen the show twice and would love to go again but the more practical side of me says no! I have to say I wasn’t expecting to be blown away, but as I left the theatre I felt transfixed, and noticed my H was in the same state. As we exited, a random person approached me and asked if it was really worth all the hype…I paused and reflected, wanting to give an accurate answer, and found myself saying that it truly was beyond my expectations, more inspiring than anything I have seen in a long time. I felt like my brain was treated to an explosion of dopamine newness (I did experience this with Coldplay years ago :slight_smile: ) but I really couldn’t pinpoint why. I ended up taking my son the second time and he had the same reaction, commenting how he would love the opportunity to see it again. I just kind of love how there is mass appeal–young, old, women, men, history buffs, history haters, theatre regulars, infrequenters, etc., all taking it in.

I am curious as to your favorite part of the show and why. For me, it was the scene at the very end as Eliza sings of legacy…just hit the right note.

I saw an interview with Chris Jackson (George Washington). He spoke about the period after the play is over where the cast/crew can invite some of the audience member up on stage. Chris said his guests would come up on stage looking dazed, tears flowing, wordlessly trying to make sense of what they just experienced. And Chris would tell them “we feel it too and we can’t explain it either.”

It’s not my favorite moment in the play, but my favorite song is Farmer Refuted simply because LMM brilliantly (brilliantly!) turned this sequence in which Hamilton formally announced his ARRIVAL in New York by outdueling (heh) the Tory establishment in the newspapers into this beautiful proto-rap battle. And throws shade at Jersey.

This song is straight up history, yo, and we didn’t even know we were going to school. Sam Seabury didn’t either, poor sap.

@doschicos Thank you for sharing!

I agree with you that Rory O’Malley is an excellent king and certainly lived up to the wonderful performance by Jonathan Groff. I’m not sure I could pick a favorite.

I haven’t seen Seth Stewart but from all I’ve heard, he’s fantastic. To be honest, Daveed Diggs was one of my least favorites in the OBC.

I haven’t seen Brandon Victor Dixon as Burr. I was supposed to be in NYC this week and see the show again as well as attend NAMT theatre festival but a health issue has prevented that. I have seen Brandon, though, in several previous shows and he’s extremely talented. It would be difficult for me to like anyone more than Leslie, I’m afraid, because not only do I love his performance as Burr, I know him, so I admit my bias. :slight_smile:

I know it’s blasphemy but I think that Javier’s Hamilton is superior to Lin’s. Many knowlegable theatre friends agree. I look forward to seeing the show again, probably in the new year when I’m able to travel again.