<p>leanid, look to the purpose of the two acts . You’ll find the difference. Genital mutilation, where practiced, is an abomination.</p>
<p>frrrph,
I’m not sure how to reply to your posts. It is comments like yours that give me pause and, frankly, scare me a little. Yes, there are problems with how women are sometimes treated in Western societies, but there seems to be a major difference between how the West and the Arab/Muslim world approaches the problem. The West talks about it, debates it, highlights the arguments. The Arab/Muslim world, to this admittedly unfamiliar viewer, appears to shut down discussion and debate. If women are being allowed to challenge for rights in these societies, then our press is not reporting this and we are getting an unbalanced view. Is that what you are claiming?</p>
<p>Your points about a society being able to decide for itself what is right and wrong is a difficult one. If you live in America, you must know that the press is far from right-wing on the Iraq conflict and much of the American activity in Iraq. I can’t remember the last time I saw a supportive headline in a major newspaper (and I read a lot). But some Americans (perhaps including me) wonder if the situation with women in the Arab/Muslim world is analogous to the plight of black Africans in South Africa. The white Afrikaaners were never going to change and they insisted that it was their society and that outsiders should never have any say in how they run their country. Can you comment on how you saw this situation and if you sided with the Afrikaaners or with those from outside the country who sought evolution and consequential change? I don’t mean to be insulting, but I just don’t understand the Arab/Muslim mindset on this and I would really like to. Thanks.</p>
<p>Okay, cur, what exactly IS the purpose of circumcision – disease prevention? – I think not in this day and age. I find it extremely amusing that such an obviously barbaric practice continues well past its time. LOL!</p>
<p>First off I’d say that in many (perhaps not all, but certainly in many) cases, the Arab and Muslim viewpoint might not be the same thing. I’ve lived in the Gulf or India for most of my life; and practically every Muslim I’ve known (although I have to admit that the majority of these have been Indian) has been a supporter of Women’s rights and a ‘modern’ Muslim. For them the issue is something vital for progress.</p>
<p>There certainly could be a significant difference in perceptions and interpretations of this topic depending upon whether you’re considering Muslims or Arabs. (Case in point, India, with the second largest population of Muslims in the world, has been undergoing a public education campaign for women’s rights over the past few years and has seen 1 (and nearly 2) women Prime Ministers; while Saudi Arabia or Yemen, Arab and Muslim states, have seen little progress in women’s rights.)</p>
<p>leanid:</p>
<p>There was a time when practically all American boys were circumcised for reasons of cleanliness. Since then, it appears that physicians have mostly decided that this is unnecessary.</p>
<p>Having said that, cutting off the foreskin in now way hampers any sort of penile function of which I’m aware. My understanding is that this is not the case in female circumcision, if that’s the correct term.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, median family income in the U.S. peaked in the early 1970s, and has declined since, mostly as a result to divorce laws heavily favoring males, the refusal of government agencies to aggressively enforce child support laws, men simply refusing to take care of children, and female income being roughly 70% that of males for the same job. We have a national epidemic of homeless women with children, and a recent study in Seattle indicated that at a wage roughly $2/hr above the minimum, a woman with two children would have to work 98 hours a week to afford market-rate low-income housing, not including the cost of childcare. </p>
<p>Enlightened indeed.</p>
<p>
Female Genital mutilations is considered as human right abuse by AI. If you are trying to equate circumcision with female genital mutilation i could do little .
India has the third largest Muslim population not 2nd. </p>
<p>The obvious reason for this state of Women rights is the lack of democracy in the Arab world. In democratic countries(like Turkey, India) Muslim women still have some rights. </p>
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</p>
<p>Pakistan has had women Prime minister,<em>but</em> the state of women in Pakistan is not much better than in the Arab world. These women(Prime ministers) came from wealthy social background completely different from that a typical Muslim women. </p>
<p>
I agree. Human rights are universal.</p>
<p>“female income being roughly 70% that of males for the same job.”</p>
<p>“national epidemic of homeless women with children”</p>
<p>“a woman with two children would have to work 98 hours a week to afford market-rate low-income housing, not including the cost of childcare.”</p>
<p>And, of course, the question now is: Are you an American? If so, you’re one them yankees, aren’t ya?</p>
<p>“Pakistan has had women Prime minister,<em>but</em> the state of women in Pakistan is not much better than in the Arab world. These women(Prime ministers) came from wealthy social background completely different from that a typical Muslim women.”</p>
<p>And our current female Presidential candidate??? :eek:</p>
<p>“And, of course, the question now is: Are you an American? If so, you’re one them yankees, aren’t ya?”</p>
<p>Nwester here, and one of those strange Americans who provides services to homeless women with children.</p>
<p>According to Islam, human rights are defined by the one who created human.</p>
<p>
Do you want to compare situation of women in Arab society with American society?</p>
<p>The point i want to make is that the number of women head of state has no relation with the status of women in that particular country.</p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>“The point i want to make is that the number of women head of state has no relation with the status of women in that particular country.”</p>
<p>Is that the best you can do for the U.S.? How many poor MEN are heads of state in other countries?</p>
<p>Things done to women in Arab and Muslim countries are often horrible, horrible. Things done to women in this predominantly Christian country are often horrible, horrible, though in different ways. Things done by this country to females in at least one Arab/Muslim country are significantly worse in my judgment to both.</p>
<p>Do you believe that the number of women head of state has a relation with the status of women in that particular country?
What do you mean by “though in different ways”? As i have said earlier, i believe that Human rights are universal.</p>
<p>“Things done by this country to females in at least one Arab/Muslim country are significantly worse in my judgment to both.”</p>
<p>War casualties constitute members of both sex. I believe US doesn’t doesn’t has bombs that could specifically kill only females[nor does US want to].</p>
<p>“As i have said earlier, i believe that Human rights are universal.”</p>
<p>That’s nice. (I think I’ve said what I already need to say.)</p>
<p>“War casualties constitute members of both sex. I believe US doesn’t doesn’t has bombs that could specifically kill only females[nor does US want to].”</p>
<p>When you decide to target (through either bombs or sanctions) civilian infrastructure, when you know that the opponents’ military is 100% male, it has the same impact. Put it another way: the 100% male military received a free pass.</p>
<p>Hey, Abhi08544, how would you convince a Muslim to embrace a particular understanding of human rights when Quran clearly contradicts this understanding?</p>
<p>
I don’t think it’s possible, that’s why all the religiously motivated terrorist are Muslims. I don’t think any sensible person should try to literally follow a book written by barbaric tribes.</p>
<p>Tarhunt - Valid point, however it is still mutilation – albeit a milder form.</p>
<p>Abhi, what’s the solution then? Alter the Quran, or what?</p>
<p>To those with Arab/Muslim backgrounds or great knowledge of these societies,
My understanding from the little bit of reading that I have done is that only a few strains of Wahhabi and like thinking are implacably opposed to any model for women similar to Western mores. But, is it only the passionate minority (and its willingness to commit violence in support of its view) that will not allow any evolution of the role of women? Or are these views held broadly by Muslims and there is no room for change?</p>