Questions about Philly

<p>I will probably get my green card (become permanent resident) within the next few months and I will be able to change job location. I just started to think about where I want to live afterwards. I live in LA and would like to move to a more urban looking city with decent to great public transit and more affordable housing (as compared to Boston, SF, LA, NYC). Philly, being the 4th most populous, is on my radar screen. I have never been there though and don’t have any friends there. </p>

<p>Another city that’s high on my list is Chicago. I used to live there and like most things about it except the winter and the fact that it’s all alone by itself (I don’t care much about St. Louis and it’s not even that close anyway). I went to Northwestern; strong alumni network is a plus there. On the other hand, it’s pretty easy to visit NYC, DC, or even Boston from Philly. </p>

<p>Wikipedia says “about 18.4% of families and 22.9% of the population were below the poverty line in Philly”. I also read that “statisticly you are about 4 times more likely to get murdered in Philly than NYC”. I just asked a friend living in NYC about Philly and the first word from him was “crappy”. All cities have their crappy areas and ghettos but I wonder if Philly has larger portion being them or looks more run-down overall than cities like Chicago, NYC, SF, or LA given the data and what my friend said. My friend did say Broad St is nice; but when asked about Chicago, which he visited recently, he said Chicago was much better to him. He thought Chicago was well-maintained and pretty with the lakefront.</p>

<p>I have read nice things about the downtown. Being gay, I was glad to see the largest concentration of gay-own and gay-friendly business happen to be in the downtown area. What are the apt rent or condo cost like? What other areas are bustling (not really into anything that looks suburban) and safe besides downtown? </p>

<p>I have heard the city has some sort of revival and revitalization and many young professionals move there. Is it true? In what areas are they happening? How’s the job market there?</p>

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<p>You have to take all urban statistics with a big grain of salt because they are so highly dependent on where the city bondaries are drawn. Do the city limits include just the downtown area? Or do they extend out to include neighborhoods which would significantly impact “inner city” stats?</p>

<p>interesteddadd,</p>

<p>I was putting those as quotes and if you read my post carefully, you’d notice I haven’t formed any opinion or defined anything and I was asking what people think of Philly or the stats. I am well aware what the limitations of stats like these are.</p>

<p>I lived in Philadelphia about 25 years ago. I liked the city a lot; one of the drawbacks (then) was that for a big city it was kind of provincial – non-Pennsylvanians were not welcomed with open arms. This may have changed.</p>

<p>I visited about 18 months ago, and was impressed with what I saw. The area around Univ of Penn. has improved, for example. Having Penn right near the downtown really adds a nice flavor to Philadelphia; you can take classes, use the first-class library, go to events, etc. There are some wonderful places in Philadelphia – South Street, for example – with good restaurants and funky stores. Some of the old townhouses are just gorgeous. Fairmont Park is great – I went to a number of concerts in the summer at the stage there. And of course, lots of historical sites. Public transportation is pretty good. </p>

<p>I’ve been to Chicago several times as a visitor, but never lived there so it’s tough for me to compare the two.</p>

<p>I don’t have the real scoop on Philly because I’ve never lived there. But we go at least yearly for a long weekend & we love it. I would never call it “crappy,” but everyone has different standards. I think Philly has good restaurants, great history (obviously!)with plenty to see & do. I’ve probably spent most time in the more touristy areas, but I’ve always felt safe & find the city very clean.</p>

<p>Finally got to Chicago this summer & found that to be an amazing city. I live ten miles from NYC & am there all the time, so maybe I was just wowed by something “new.” I especially loved how everything is just a little bit spread out. I could appreciate the architecture so much more than in Manhattan. Cleanliness blew NYC away, too. 15 year old D wants to move there after she experienced the city on our vacation.</p>

<p>National Geographic magazine has called Philly the “next great city” for what it’s worth. Housing is relatively inexpensive and the city has terrific museums and a growing artistic community. My D attends Penn and really likes the city.</p>

<p>Mayor Street’s approval rating is presently at 20%. Last year the homicide rate was 406–more than one a day. This year it is keeping pace. SS, I don’t know if you’ve been there lately, but over Christmas I was shocked to see how filthy the streets were–and this was in the Academy of Music/Walnut Street area. I mean filthy. In the meantime, Mayor Street is concerned about banning smoking and trans-fats in the city. The school system is tragic: 12,000 students a day have unexcused absences. They have recently hired 400 “liaison” workers to talk to families about the importance of education (!).
The city is a mess. If anything, young professionals are moving out, not in, as has business for quite sometime now.</p>

<p>Pick any city other than Philly until, perhaps, (let’s hope and pray) the next mayor turns it around.</p>

<p><a href=“http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/[/url]”>http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/homicides2006.html[/url]”>http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/homicides2006.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>OK, I’ll bite. I moved here 23 years ago while my wife finished law school, planning to leave in 9 months. We never left.</p>

<p>Philly has its drawbacks, but on the whole it is a great place to live and raise a family. It is definitely more affordable than Boston, NYC, Chicago, Washington, etc. Depending on where you live in the city, you can still probably get a decent house in a decent, middle-class neighborhood for around $200,000, and in the fancy neighborhoods (Center City, Chestnut Hill, Society Hill) for $500-$700,000 (less for a small condo, much much more for something big). Fancy suburbs and those with great schools are more expensive, others not so much more expensive.</p>

<p>Center City (including the “Gayborhood” southeast of City Hall) has had a tremendous revitalization in the last 5-10 years. A lot of old office buildings have been converted to high-end condos, which means that there are people around – affluent people, and the businesses that cater to them – 24-7. Lots of good energy on the street. The city population has actually increased slightly, after 30 years of steady decline. </p>

<p>There has been a lot more turnover in population than in the past, and outsiders are no longer as excluded as they once were. People have basically gotten over that. But there are still a lot of natives who hang around, and that lends a nice flavor, too. And immigration has exploded in the last 20 years. Not so many Hispanics – until a year ago, there wasn’t even a Hispanic radio station in this market. But lots of Eastern Europeans and Asians.</p>

<p>There are huge areas of blight and depopulated neighborhoods. At its height, the city’s population was 50% higher than it is now, and it had a huge industrial base that is almost completely gone, leaving acres of brownfield properties. This mainly affects the north-central part of the city, which is ghettoized (Black or Hispanic, depending) and sparsely populated, lots of abandoned properties, except in a few nice microneighborhoods. There, and on the edges of that neighborhood, is where a lot of the crime happens, and where there is a constant drug problem. Other parts of the city are relatively unaffected by it, though. In my neighborhood, people don’t even always lock their doors. No one I know is fearful of walking around, even at night, unless they live in a marginal area.</p>

<p>The city’s politics are dominated to some extent by race and by class. It is pretty solidly Democratic except on the edges (since I’ve been here, over half of the Republican mayoral candidates, and all the ones who had a prayer of being competitive, have been conservative Democrats who switched to get on the ballot), but split pretty evenly between black and white, with other affinity groups (Hispanics, Jews, gays) often holding an important balance of power. There is constant low-grade political corruption in all quarters, which holds the city back some, and not all that much interest in do-gooder reform (although do-gooder reformists can constitute an important swing group).</p>

<p>Like most northeastern cities, Philly is still largely segregated by race, although there are a number of pretty-fully integrated upper middle class neighborhoods (Center City, University City around Penn and Drexel, Mt. Airy, parts of the Northeast).</p>

<p>Public transportation is about B-. The system is pretty adequate, but relatively expensive, relatively slow, and not always shining and gleaming. A mixture of trains, subways, trolleys, and busses. In the Center City area, it is pretty feasible to walk everywhere. The city has vastly expanded its bike lanes in recent years, too.</p>

<p>There are some good cultural opportunities, but on the whole it’s somewhat provincial, and the proximity of New York (80 minutes by train, 90 by car) sort of caps how fancy the culture gets. On the other hand, in the past few years living costs in New York have driven some creative people – artists, musicians – here, and that’s great. There are reasonably vibrant local music (rock, hip-hip, and especially jazz and classical), art, and theater scenes. There are lots of students around – Philadelphia is second only to Boston in the ratio of students to population, and there are 15-20 colleges or universities in the city and close suburbs. Penn (including its health system) is the largest non-governmental employer.</p>

<p>There are great restaurants, ranging from dirt-cheap ethnic to extremely fancy. Not as much of the latter as in NYC or Chicago, but what there is is much cheaper than in those cities, and very good quality. Definitely a “foodie” city; at almost all social levels, food = entertainment.</p>

<p>Schools, if you care: The area has a fabulous array of private schools for every taste. The Catholic school system is important, but not so great. Many of the suburbs have world-famous public school districts, and many others are striving to get to that level. The city public school system is a mess, with pockets of world-class quality and (larger) pockets of near-total breakdown. A real challenge. Depending where you live, however, and what your children’s abilities are (the system does do really well by smart, motivated kids), you can get a good education for free in the city (and certainly in many of the suburbs).</p>

<p>I echo everything that JHS said. My husband and I moved to Philly from NYC over 20 years ago. We live in a close-in suburb and my husband works in Center City. At first (the mid-80’s) we were dismayed by how little life there was downtown, but since then the city has come alive. It’s a mostly delightful place to live and work, with some wonderful cultural institutions, many excellent restaurants, and a pace (and cost) that’s slower and more liveable than New York. We’ve never regretted our move.</p>

<p>I would not want to be a middle class/lower middle class person living in Philly. </p>

<p>I have a feeling it’s somewhat different for you, JHS.</p>

<p>The city has declined mightily since even 10 years ago. The sidewalks outside the Art Museum are not even kept in repair. It gets dirtier every year. I’ve lived in a Philly suburb since 1991. And personally, I couldn’t live in a city which yawns about one (usually) young person being shot each day–I don’t care what “part” of the city in which it occurs.</p>

<p>JHS has been quite comprehensive and I agree with most of what he said. I, too, moved from New York to Philadelphia 20 years ago and have seen tremendous improvements in the city over that time. My husband and I settled in the close suburbs to raise our children, and I must say I now regret that decision. I wish we were in the city. It is truly a walkable city, much more accessible physically and pscyhologically than New York. And your observations about proximity to other wonderful cities is spot on. You can be in New York in two hours, Baltimore in two, Washington in three. The beach in two, the Pocono “Mountains” in less than two. Some of your decision, I would say, depends on what line of work you are in. The city’s prime tourism web site – gophila.com – is quite comprehensive and you can search events and venues by your areas of interest. I’d suggest checking it out. The city has also been making a push to attract gay visitors, and I believe the web site also addresses that. A number of my children’s teachers are openly gay. Most do live downtown, though not all. Good luck!</p>

<p>A few more grace notes:</p>

<p>Philadelphia’s Fairmount Park, which runs through the northwestern areas, is the second-largest urban park in the world (St. Petersburg, Russa, has a bigger one), and is a wonderful resource. I can walk out my door, cross the street, and walk 11 miles through the park all the way to the Art Museum (on the edge of Center City) only crossing one city street. Parts of it are “wild” (not really – it was all settled 100 years ago), and parts very formal and groomed. There is a very vibrant rowing community on the Schuylkill River towards the bottom of the park near the Art Museum. There is also another large park in the Northeast along Pennypack Creek.</p>

<p>Mayor Street is pretty bad, but nowhere near the utter disaster many people feared when he was first elected 7 years ago. The dynamics that put him in office were unbelievably Byzantine – he won his first election by about 2,000 votes, and his second by 5,000 – and involved deals Ed Rendell (who is more popular than God here) made when he was in office, political rivalries in the African-American community, national politics, and lots and lots of union politics (he essentially owed his election to the largely white building trades unions). The good news about the racially divided politics here is that it’s impossible for a Black candidate to win a general election without some significant support from whites, and impossible for a white candidate to win a Democratic primary without some significant support from Blacks and Hispanics. So while there is constant awareness of race in politics, there is constant coalition-building, too. There are currently five Democratic mayoral candidates – three Black, two white – and all three Blacks have significant support among white liberals, at least (although it’s generally the same white liberals who like all three). It’s a real free-for-all; no one has any idea what’s going to happen, except that the winner of the Democratic primary will probably get about 33% of the vote and then be elected by acclamation in the general election.</p>

<p>If you like college basketball, Philly is probably the best place in the world. There are six Division I teams in the city or close suburbs, and they pretty much all play each other (there is a semi-formal mini-league for Temple, Vilanova, Penn, LaSalle, and St. Joe’s, and most of them schedule Drexel, too). At any point in time, there are 5-6 future NBA players playing in high schools in the city and suburbs, too (e.g., Kobe Bryant and Rashid Wallace) and getting followed in the media. The recent Duke-UNC game was big news here because it pitted former high school teammates Gerald Henderson and Wayne Ellington against one another.</p>

<p>The current murder rate is awful, and an embarassment, but represents 0.02% of the population. You are not likely to know a murder victim. Petty street crime affects many more people, but is not any worse than it was a few years ago, and is much better than in the 80s. The murder rate is really a function of there being too many damn guns around, which in turn is at least in part a function of rural Pennsylvanians really liking their guns and falling in line with the ARA in opposing any gun-control measures. (Pennsylvania has the largest rural population of any state. James Carville had a famous line about Pennsylvania politics: “It’s Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Alabama in between.” Although actually right now statewide politics is dominated by the Philadelphia suburbs – candidates who win there, win.)</p>

<p>I honestly don’t know what hereshoping was talking about re filthy streets. This is a city; it’s not pristine. But it has gotten better, not worse, in the Center City area in the past decade, and it’s been years since I’ve been in the area she’s talking about and thought “Yccch!”</p>

<p>Man, I really don’t want to work today. So I’ll answer a few more of your specific questions, at least according to my lights:</p>

<p>Other “bustling” urban neighborhoods besides Center City: Lots around the edges of Center City, including Fairmount (near the Art Museum), Northern Liberties (perpetually gentrifying area north-northeast of Center City popular with artists), Manayunk (almost a self-contained, somewhat hip town 5 mi northwest of Center City along the Schuylkill), University City and Powelton (the areas around Penn and Drexel, with great public transportation access to Center City), and Mayfair (nice middle class community in the Northeast). Some areas of South Philadelphia’s old Italian neighborhoods are also becoming popular as Center City rents go up. There may be some others in the Northeast, an area I still don’t know all that well. As in other sprawly cities that grew by incorporating other communities, there are lots of suburban-type neighborhoods, too, especially in the far Northwest and Northeast areas. I live in one of those, and it has its own vibrant, cute commercial district, but it’s not exactly Bright Lights, Big City. There are some suburbs with actual neo-urban character (defined commercial districts, mix of housing, sense of community), too: Narberth, Wayne, Elkins Park, Collingswood, Moorestown, Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Philly vs. Chicago: Chicago is much bigger, much richer, much colder, much flatter, and much more regionally dominant. The lake shore in Chicago is one of the urban design treasures in the world. Chicago is much cooler than Philly in many respects, but maybe less livable, and a less manageable scale. Plus, as I and others have said, the Center of the World is an easy daytrip from here. I can get to New York on the train in not much more time than it takes my Chicago-dwelling daughter to go from her apartment to the clubs she likes on the CTA.</p>

<p>Jobs: It seems alright, but I’m not sure why. Big employers in the city are hospital systems, universities, drug companies, insurance companies, other financial services, real estate developers, law firms, Comcast, and companies that serve them. Most of the employment growth has been in the ‘burbs, many of which are stuffed to the gills with office parks. I sense that Chicago is more vibrant in this respect – it still has a good number of large-corporate headquarters, which Philly has much less than it once did (it’s pretty much down to Comcast, some drug companies’ U.S. headquarters, and ARA now).</p>

<p>I grew up in the Philadelphia area and still have family there. JHS has done a very good job at detailing information about the area. I would just like to reiterate that Philly is, and always has been, a city which is filled with artists, of every description. Its art museums and galleries are world-renowned. I know many individuals who are involved in the theatre community there and the theatre fans there are well-served with national tours, independent productions, local productions, and community theatre. Music, of all descriptions from big name performers there in concert, to the Philadelphia Orchestra, to small jazz clubs, there’s something for everyone. </p>

<p>The city does have a fairly vibrant and active gay community. Also, one of the most popular and famous destinations for gay men on the east coast, New Hope, PA, in gorgeous Bucks County, is a short drive away. Beautiful town on the Delaware River with abundant shopping, theatre, great restaurants, clubs, antiquing, etc.</p>

<p>Crime is definitely a concern and while other large cities have experienced a drastic reduction in their murder rates, Philadelphia’s continues to increase, and until someone in power has the courage to address the easy availability of guns, it’s unlikely to change. </p>

<p>I still enjoy reading (and shaking my head) about Philadelphia politics. Since the days of Frank Rizzo, and probably before!, there’s never been a dull (or uncorrupt) moment. :)</p>

<p>Not much I can add to JHS’s words on Philly, except to say that I like old cities, and Philly qualifies. Parts of the downtown area have narrow streets from a different era. I like that.</p>

<p>My impression of the place is that it tends to live in New York’s shadow. As JHS points out, that can be a good thing.</p>

<p>Chicago: I know much more about Chicago and, apparently, you’ve lived in the area, so you do, too. Frankly, I think Chicago is one of the best places I ever lived. It’s a stunning, vibrant city that is world class in a way that I doubt LA will ever be. You’re probably familiar with many of the neighborhoods in North Chicago? A number of them have strong gay presences.</p>

<p>Actually, alwaysamom, Philly’s murder rate declined sharply from the late 80s / early 90s (not sure when the peak was) to a few years ago, and then spiked up again (but still far short of the peak years – I think the peak was almost 600). My understanding is that there has been some increase in homicides in lots of cities – for no clearly apparent reason – but Philly’s has been worse than elsewhere – also for no clearly apparent reason. I believe overall violent crime is down somewhat, although (as elsewhere) what gets loaded into the statistics is not always what happens.</p>

<p>People don’t yawn at the murder rate here. There’s a constant drumbeat about it in the media, in community groups, and in mayoral campaign speeches. Everybody has someone to blame for it (Mayor Street, the police commissioner, Congressional Republicans, Harrisburg Republicans, gun lobbyists, George W. Bush, liberals, gangsta rappers, etc.). Everybody has a proposed solution (more police on the streets!, mandatory sentences!, peace in the hood!, get out of Iraq!, ban handguns!, school uniforms!). But since no one has come up with a convincing account of why homicides have spiked up, it’s a little hard to get enthusiastic about any particular expensive solution. </p>

<p>Fifteen years ago, the crack epidemic and related gang warfare were pretty clearly driving crime-rate increases. There’s nothing remotely like that now – maybe a little more heroin (but that’s old school, not the free-for-all the crack tsunami was), some very modest gang resurgence. The homicides that get the press are bystanders shot in gun battles between 17-year-olds (and there’s far too much of that) and elderly victims of home invasion, but (as elsewhere) the majority are violent resolutions of disputes about sex and money between people who know each other well – something not even a cop on every street corner would stop. And the map of homicides that hereshoping linked to – that’s a map of poverty and population density in the city, nothing more and nothing less.</p>

<p>Many thanks to you guys. I am at work and will ask more probably tonight. I am hoping to like Philly as I will have more options. I really prefer the east coast more than the midwest. :D</p>

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<p>I’ve lived in New Haven, Boston and Chicago and have visited all recently. All are cleaner and better maintained. No excuse for it, imo. I cringed at the thought of Prince Charles and Camilla visiting. You’ll just have to visit and decide for yourself, Sam Lee.</p>

<p>Agreed on Boston and Chicago, but I am in New Haven regularly, and if you think downtown New Haven is nicer than Philadelphia (or even cleaner), I think you need to wipe the politics off your glasses.</p>

<p>I cringed at the thought of Prince Charles and Camilla visiting, too, but that’s because I sort of cringe at the thought of Prince Charles and Camilla, and because it screwed up the traffic near my office.</p>