Questions on financial aid at brown for unique situation

Colleges & Universities Brown University
1

<p>Brown has always been my dream school and I seem to have the stats for it. My weighted GPA is well over 4 and my unweighted is just about 4, I take the most challenging classes at my school and go above and beyond to pursue my interests through extra electives and online classes (though I have a slight weakness in math and science, but nothing serious), my extracurriculars are exceptional as I have competed internationally in my most involved one, I have good essays, my ACT scores are above 30 in all categories on the first try AND I’m retaking, both my parents went there for grad school (which I know isn’t legacy proper, but which I’m sure must not hurt), I am involved with and organize community service, and I hold down two jobs in the summer and one during the school year. I visited Brown and fell in love with it, and will be visiting again in the fall with hopefully an overnight. </p>

<p>This isn’t about chancing-it seems like I’ll find that out when the time comes. Brown has always been my dream school and I have always intended to apply early decision. However, in recent years my family has fallen upon hard financial times. My parents are dysfunctional and both suffer from mental disorders, depression and bipolarity. My father runs his own business, which is lucrative, and I attend a pricey but rigorous private school. They appear distinctly upper middle class. However, they have acquired high amounts of debt because of their horrible spending habits and lack of foresight. This began when I was too young to do anything about it. Now, they are buckling down and paying off that debt (which is incredibly high), but it has happened right at the worst time for me. Not only am I forced to work long hours while maintaining my grades, extracurriculars, etc., but college is looming. It looks like it can be paid back by about my junior year of college-but that seems too late. Additionally, I have 3 siblings one of which will be entering college next year on almost full scholarship (yay!) and the other two just two years after me. It seems pertinent that the private school I am currently attending gave me and my siblings large amounts of aid once they found out about the debt-which my father was oblivious about for a long time. </p>

<p>How do I go about applying to Brown so that myself and my parents won’t be drowning in debt? Can I apply early decision like I really want to? Can I express this situation to Brown in some way that they could possibly understand? How is Brown’s financial aid in general? So many questions. Thank you for your help.</p>

2

<p>Applying for aid is something you have to do blindly and see what the offer is. For this reason, you cannotapply ED. Brown will decide EFC when they get your FAFSA and your supplement statement. However, if it helps, Brown gave us generous aid RD, and it was very close to the EFC estimators (as were the other schools, Brown just replaced loans with grants.) When the other siblings go to college, your EFC will drastically lower.</p>

3

<p>I disagree. Apply ED; if the aid package sucks, just decline the spot. So long as you keep your RD applications in the game, you’ll be fine. I will say however that Brown’s aid is not very good relative to it’s peers, so financial issues are a distinct possibility.</p>

4

<p>Here’s what you need to do:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Your parents need to go to the Brown website (and the website of any other school you are thinking of applying to) and fill out the financial aid calculator. Here is the link for Brown: [Brown's</a> Financial Aid Calculator | Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.brown.edu/about/administration/financial-aid/browns-financial-aid-calculator]Brown’s”>http://www.brown.edu/about/administration/financial-aid/browns-financial-aid-calculator).</p></li>
<li><p>You should also find a financial aid calculator online and fill that out too, and see what your family’s EFC is, and compare that to the number you get from Brown and other schools. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>If any of your parents’ debt is because of high medical bills, financial aid offices often make exceptions for that. There are also provisions made for other kids in college. For more info on that, I suggest you call the financial aid office directly.</p>

<p>snipersas is correct that you can apply ED and then, if the financial aid package isn’t to your satisfaction, you can turn down Brown. However, you can get an idea of your package by doing what I suggest above. If your family’s expected contribution is well beyond what your family can afford, then it might be a wasted application.</p>

<p>Now, for the bad news. Colleges like Brown believe that it is the parents’ responsibility to pay for college. If you have irresponsible parents, or parents who have the money but refuse to pay – well, unfortunately, that’s just your bad luck. Going to an elite private school is a privilege, not a right. There are a million sad stories like yours out there, and most colleges won’t be sympathetic to them. Brown has limited financial aid dollars, and would rather give them to needy families than a kid whose father owns a “lucrative” business but likes to spend money.</p>

<p>You don’t have to take out loans to go to college if you apply to the right schools. If you have the stats to get into Brown, then you have the stats to get excellent merit aid (like your sibling). Sure, go ahead and apply to Brown. But also apply to a lot of schools where you will get great merit aid. Whatever you do, don’t go into debt beyond the federal Stafford loans. </p>

<p>Two other things. Families who own their own business tend to do very poorly when it comes to getting financial aid. All those legitimate business deductions are added right back onto income. So if your father’s business is lucrative, which I assume means he earns over six figures, the chances of getting financial aid is really slim.</p>

<p>And ED is not as much of a boost as you think. Many ED acceptances go to recruited athletes, legacies, and kids with other hooks. If you took them out of the picture, you’ll find that the ED acceptance rate drops quite a bit, not as low as the RD rate, but it’s not as helpful as it initially looks on paper.</p>

5

<p>fireandrain, your response was particularly useful. Do Brown and other colleges factor in outstanding debt when considering aid? Do they consider where the debt is from? The situation was very weird. Basically, one parent spent/gambled and controlled all the money while the other was oblivious until just a few months ago. They were both very irresponsible, and now the chances of me going to ANY good college seems slim to none. Do they take special cases into consideration? Does the fact that there will be no debt by about my junior year come under consideration? Could I take out loans until then?
Also, the part about families who own their businesses seems worrying/interesting. Do they also factor in my two siblings current private school education? Or do they not take that into consideration?</p>

6

<p>Oh and for what it’s worth, my college counselor advised me not to apply ED and gave me a few schools which have give out much aid/scholarships.</p>

7

<p>They probably don’t take any of the information you are disclosing in your post #5 into consideration. This will sound cold, but, unfortunately true: your parents did this to themselves while earning a good amount of money. Obviously I don’t know them, so I am not at all being personal, and I don’t mean any disrespect. Private school tuition doesn’t matter, I don’t think, as it’s not for college. Debt probably doesn’t matter either. The amount of aid comes from a formula that takes assets, earnings, other children’s college tuition bank accounts, etc. into account. Take fireandrain’s advice and use the Brown Calculator that she cites to help you get in the ballpark.</p>

8

<p>Brown considers private high school tuition if it’s being paid at the same time that you are attending (i.e. that of siblings). I don’t know if they simply deduct that amount from the expected contribution or not, but I had been in that situation my final 3 years.</p>

<p>The would not, of course, consider the amount of aid that you received, and some private high schools are much more generous than Brown with aid.</p>

9

<p>Definitely look at other schools that might suit your bill, but might have merit aid etc. (and if you qualify re total parent income etc. <$160K you may fair better at some other schools) I know a student who has a sort of similar situation to you. Did not end up even getting in Brown, but got 100% full ride at Vassar. “middling” financial aide at other schools. Cast your net wide and you may have some surprising choices.</p>

10

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<p>Mortgage debt, sometimes (depends on the college). And debt incurred from high medical expenses. Debt from gambling – doubtful.</p>

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<p>You need to alter your opinion of what makes a “good college.” There are many colleges out there where you will get a top-notch education, be with smart peers and be competitive for good jobs and grad schools. Trust me, you can get all of that and not go to an Ivy. </p>

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<p>Always (especially if you are a very valuable applicant – as in, athletic recruit). But I doubt gambling debt counts. Again, why should any school give its limited need-based financial aid to a family with a “lucrative” income instead of a kid whose parents earn $20,000/year? And many schools will throw tens of thousands of dollars your way to “buy” your high SAT scores. </p>

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<p>They look at your situation freshmen year. And why do you want to follow your parent’s bad example and take out loans?</p>

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<p>My advice to you is to post your situation and questions in the financial aid forum. There are some very knowledgable parents there, who know a lot more about need-based financial aid than I do, and can explain in more detail how colleges view self-employed parents. (But don’t go there and describe your situation as “unique” or “weird,” because it really isn’t.)</p>

<p>I am really sorry that your parent’s gambling problem ruined your family’s finances. I realize that my answers to you are somewhat harsh. But the real world can be cruel, and it’s better that you know this now, and not April of your senior year. If you spend any amount of time on CC, you’ll learn that there are many sad cases like yours, really bright kids who, for many reasons, can’t afford to go to the top selective schools because of financial problems that are out of their control. It is frustrating, and painful. You may have to go through the grieving process. But then you need to become proactive and figure out where to apply based on where you will get merit money. You also need to have a heart-to-heart with your parents and find out exactly (a specific dollar number) how much they are able to spend each year on your college expenses. </p>

<p>I’ll add that a handful of schools (HYP and Stanford) have more generous financial aid packages where families with incomes up to $180,000 do get need-based aid. Although assets are taken into account, also. And I have no idea how they calculate income for someone who owns their business.</p>

11

<p>Thank you to all who replied. I’m just now starting to understand the difficult nature of financial aid. I want to say that Brown is not my be all end all, and there are all a lot of other schools out there I’m interested in. My parents can probably spend 20,000-30,000 on me to go to school so I am FAR more fortunate than most, though I have troubles outside of the norm. This thread isn’t to complain about my situation; I’m simply worried that colleges will see the income and look at nothing else (my sister is currently in college, my brothers both attend a private school for the phenomenal education, the debt) and expect us to pay 100% of the tuition. That simply isnt possible for us. I am looking at a multitude of other schools (Kenyon, Amherst, Swarthmore, Vassar, to name a few). I just don’t want to attend somewhere that I hate because it will give me merit scholarships and no college (not only Ivies but also those liberal arts schools) will provide enough aid. I’ll probably post again in the financial aid thread. Thank you very much.</p>

12

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As I mentioned above, Brown would consider concurrent private high school costs (as well as concurrent sibling college costs) and reduce your expected contribution as a result. Many schools would consider at least concurrent college costs, though not necessarily private high school costs.</p>