<p>Unions are not perfect, but, by LAW, management does not represent the interests of workers. Unions are only as good as the active participation of its members.</p>
<p>Well we all live in the real world mini. The only person who represents an individual worker’s rights is his attorney.</p>
<p>"Ask the Hostess employees whether they are happy with the company management that awarded themselves huge increases ranging up to 300% while driving the company into the ground. "
-no need to ask. Like their compensation, become one of them! Why not? Do not like the company where it happened, exercise your vero power, go out the door, find better place. As I said, I done it many times and actually follow advice of my manager at one of the places. He called the meeiting, presented us with certain decision and said that whoever did not like it, everybody have the right to leave. Well, many left and I believe that department is not there anymore. Yes, employees have power, do not need to feel bitter, do not need to hate anybody, just use the power that nobody can take away from you,…well, yet, the worse times are coming, but as of now we are still free.</p>
<p>There are things that go way beyond a worker’s “individual” rights. In the real world, we’d all be working 12 hours a day in sweatshops without fire escapes and without health care if it wasn’t for unions. </p>
<p>I guess we could all go work in Bangladesh. They are now looking for workers 'cause they lost a few. Is that not real enough for you?</p>
<p>Unions in the NYC/NJ area are a breed unto themselves.</p>
<p>
Step in to the 21st century, mini! I’m waiting for you and I have refreshments.</p>
<p>Unions in NYC/NJ are a whole other breed. They completely control the entire state of New York.</p>
<p>"There are things that go way beyond a worker’s “individual” rights. In the real world, we’d all be working 12 hours a day in sweatshops without fire escapes and without health care if it wasn’t for unions. "
-Yes, it was then, and now we are sweating the other way. Why my employees (yes, my public servants in Public education, police and other public places), yes, why people who are paid out of my taxes, have much higher salary and retire at 55 with great health benefits. They do not even pay SS, they have other better plan. They exist to protect incompetent, non-performing, others do not need thier protection, others can walk out the door and find another better place to work.</p>
<p>Agree totally with zoosermom. As I said I have lived through this. Was in a union, was on strike, went back in (for a planned promotion) during a strike. Even though I agreed in advance not to do the work of any striking worker the union put intense pressure on me not to go back and take a promotion I had worked for. I was 22 at the time.<br>
DH and I own a non union construction business. Our workers get more and better benefits than union workers. The unions have harassed our guys beyond belief. I have seen more than my share of it. They have also gone to union shops who hire us as subcontractors and demanded that we not be hired even though we are paying the prevailing wage and we were the low bidder. And there is not a union shop that does our specialized work within two hundred miles of here. (HUH?) The union is about the union. Period.<br>
I get fed up with people who theorize about unions. When you have personal knowledge of it the story changes.</p>
<p>Zooser can I have some of those refreshments? I’m kinda hungry…:)</p>
<p>Of course you can! I’m always good for cupcakes.</p>
<p>“I get fed up with people who theorize about unions. When you have personal knowledge of it the story changes.”</p>
<p>Belonged to a union for 20 years. My wife for the past seven. No one works for our collective rights without them. I’d have virtually no pension without mine. My wife would see massive health care cuts without them. (Management is still trying.) When you work 60 hours a week, it’s a good idea to have someone out there watching your collective backs. I don’t have to theorize - I’ve been there.</p>
<p>We will have to agree to disagree on this one.</p>
<p>I could discuss my loss of pension while in union hands, but that isn’t helpful to Op. Similarly, the history of unions isn’t either.
Op needs to get facts from her current union rep, or at least start with that…</p>
<p>My H has worked in union positions for most of his adult life.
When we first married he was working in a shipyard installing water and light tight doors on military ships. He was very skilled obviously, and even though he was in a union classification, when layoffs occurred both management of the shipyard and the union worked together to reclassify him so that he could be retained despite layoffs of people with more seniority.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, when the current contracts were fulfilled the major shipyards in Seattle were all but shut down for years.
The disadvantage of having worked at a union shipyard was that comparable positions paid less than half for similar work and non-union businesses wouldn’t hire him under the assumption he would leave when the larger shipyard started up again.
He didn’t find a comparable position in another industry for almost two years.
Manufacturing jobs, all being sent overseas ya know- as union positions require that workers have at least one weekend off a month & health care as well as a safe environment.
:rolleyes:
You may not have this problem in a hospital setting, but if the union demands more benefits and pay than management feels they can afford, then cuts might be made in areas that compromise safety & patient care.
( As opposed to salaries for management)</p>
<p>MiamiDAP makes a good point. How much is too much in terms of benefits and salary? Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take what my husband’s contract mandates, but in a city as large as New York, is is really fiscally prudent to allow workers to retire on full pensions with lifetime medical provided by the city after 20 years on the job? Many workers retire in their 40s and the taxpayers pay for the rest of their lives and for their spouses and dependents, as well. We have to look at demographics, you know? People have far fewer babies now (and don’t tell me about immigration, I work with immigrants and they aren’t having lots of babies anymore, either) and there just aren’t enough workers to support these benefits (as well as other benefits). So workers can want what they want, but there comes a point at which a promise that can’t be kept won’t be kept.</p>
<p>Just had a conversation about teacher’s unions with someone who is a teacher in the NE. She taught in the south (a non-union state) for a few years prior to getting her job. She told me her salary is twice as much as it would be if she had stayed at her old job in the south. She credits the union completely for her good salary and benefits. She’s convinced it’s the only way to get bright people to go into education. Otherwise, with half the money, public education would be in worse shape that it already is. Not sure what’s meant by the statement regarding NY/NJ unions in an earlier post, but she thinks they are a necessary evil in the world of education. She is a good, hard-working teacher and it seems to me she is deserving of a good salary and retirement benefits. Nursing may be headed in the same direction and unions may be the unfortunate answer. These are service jobs and our society needs quality people in them.</p>
<p>The membership should be telling the union what points are important in negotiations.
If their pension allows them to retire in their 40’s and they aren’t earning disability as well, it does sound like their pay/pensions are very generous.Although my mil was given incentives to retire early from the phone company when she wasn’t much older than that.( so she could take care of her other grandchild full time- which is another story)</p>
<p>Current members however, may stress maintaining pensions rather than training and pay incentives for new workers.</p>
<p>Of course since in many of these jobs there seems to be a good bit of nepotism involved in hiring, so you might think they would want their niece or grandson to have a liveable wage, but not always.</p>
<p>In some ways the union has hurt H- for him personally, not necessarily production or working conditions. You don’t earn merit pay, or earn raises except with contract negotiations. However he has weathered lots of layoffs.</p>
<p>It can also be difficult to fire incompetent workers, so it is more likely they just get assigned somewhere else, until people start complaining again.</p>
<p>Something that seems common in union positions, for instance with the principals union in our city school district.
( Then again if the principals are really incompetent, they are shuffled around the district until the only place for them is in district management. Oh- if only I were kidding 
)</p>
<p>Which is the last point I have to make, with a non-union workplace, you depend on a good relationship with management because they hold all the power - which can be very good or very bad.
Unions cant get an in to a workplace unless the workers already have a problem with working conditions.</p>
<p>They can fire you for almost any reason and require you to work off the clock ( without a union)- at least in ,manufacturing ( & in health care, I imagine) you can’t physically take work home with you, ;)</p>
<p>( although H does work out problems with pencil and paper at home - he builds and designs special tools that are needed to build the parts engineering comes up with.
He would be surprised to hear me talk, I get pretty disgusted with big unions- but it is like anything political, it only works as well as the people involved.)</p>
<p>
My daughter is a teacher, too, so I am very sympathetic, but where is the money supposed to come from?</p>
<p>
Has anyone seen the news reports of the Longshoremen’s union here? More in common with the Corleones than average workers. Interesting story, though.</p>
<p>I wonder how long it will be before xiggi shows up?</p>
<p>I wonder if xiggi saw the special on Dyson vacuums on Amazon today.</p>