<p>You mean “down there” while it was flooded? Or you mean before that?</p>
<p>It wasn’t just low income or minority neighborhoods that flooded. Very affluent Lakeview flooded, as did the country folk in St. Bernard, etc. </p>
<p>And I can tell you that civilian rescuers–including people who might be considered “good ole boys”–did not shun the Lower Ninth Ward (about as “down there” as it gets). I heard rescues on the radio; you would not believe the incredible compassion in the voices of the rescuers coaxing and encouraging frantic people into the boats. I know some of the guys who were out there; they were so frustrated when they were ordered to stand down…and by the lack of urgency in replacing them.</p>
<p>But it’s true that pre-Katrina affluent people didn’t go to the Lower Ninth Ward. They do now though. Affluent people come either to sightsee on tour busses or to pick up a hammer at Musician’s village. Hard as it is to see the tour busses, I guess it’s better than if they didn’t make an effort to understand at all.</p>
<p>“Anyhow, I don’t remember that there were more whites or blacks being shown on TV.”</p>
<p>You don’t recall scenes from the SuperDome, where people were packed like sardines in 100+degree heat, with overflowing toilets and no food or water? You don’t recall the aerial footage of thousands of people trapped on a bridge for days being denied entry into Mississippi, because the good people in the next town over refused to allow them in? You don’t recall what color the vast majority of them were? Interesting…You must not have spent much time watching CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX coverage during the aftermath of Katrina, then. I don’t know many people (not even the see-no-evil conservatives of CC) who wouldn’t concede that the faces of the suffering in NO, as seen on television, were overwhelmingly black.</p>
<p>What we witnessed in NO after Katrina was not incompetence. It was at best, abject indifference.</p>
<p>FF, I concede that “thousands” may indeed have been on the level of hyperbole, but two weeks after the waters had receded, there were still dead bodies lying in the streets of the ninth ward which were not recovered, and in homes that had still not been searched for the missing and dead. There are still structures that remain virtually untouched in these areas. Do you have proof that they have all been searched, and all bodies recovered?</p>
<p>“From what I have read, NO suffers from gross incompetance and corruption and that the problems down there are probably 90% local in origin. To take these problems and blame President Bush and the “white majority” for them without documentation is race-baiting in my book.”</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is disputing the fact that there is a history of massive corruption and incompetence in the governmental infrastructure of NO. Their clown of a mayor had me mad enough to chew nails and spit rust every time I saw his idiotic mug on television. But this discussion is about what the federal government failed in do in the aftermath of one of the most devastating natural disasters in US history. I believe it’s valid, given the history of this country, to ask how things might have been handled differently had it taken place in a city where those trapped were whiter and more affluent. Just because you want to deny that race is still a very powerful social factor in this country, does not mean it isn’t so.</p>
<p>“the faces of the suffering in NO, as seen on television, were overwhelmingly black.”</p>
<p>Yes, they were. I had the strange experience of watching them from the chambers of a black federal appeals court judge, where the law clerks spent four days watching CNN over the federal T-1 line and shrieking at one another, “I could have fifty helicopters down there by now! What century is this?”</p>
<p>I think, although I can’t prove, that race played a role in the indifference, but ultimately, I don’t think it matters very much. This government is oblivious to human suffering; they make their own reality, so the fate of any helpless people is not their concern unless it fits into their created reality scheme. One thing we do know for sure: if you want protection from the federal government, you better have eight cells and live in a petri dish. Otherwise, you’re on your own.</p>
<p>Tech was not a disaster area, and it isn’t very far from Washington. Also, all of the victims weren’t white. Maybe most of them, although I’ve hardly run an analysis. These are different situations. </p>
<p>However the argument that Katrina was handled shamefully is not one I reject, I just don’t think comparing it a mass murder scene is doing the argument justice. It wasn’t really just the federal government though - it was the entire nation. We easily divide along the lines of “us” and “them.” How much goes on in “poor” or “urban” areas everyday, but if it happens in a nicer area, then there is an outrage. There is always shock when it is someone considered well off, because that threatens people, makes them think, this could happen to me. Honestly watching the Katrina footage right after, in America we can get cameras in to tape babies limp with dehydration, but apparently not water. We had people packed in a Superdome, with horrible things happening, crimes on children, and nothing happened for so long. That’s not okay. A disaster is never going to go smoothly - you cannot plan these things - but this situation was beyond a few rough patches. </p>
<p>The Katrina situation has a lot to do with class, and something to do with race also. Honestly, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. These were disenfranchised communities, largely minority (which may tie into some of the disenfranchisement) that weren’t capable of putting the pressure on the government that would need to be put on to make someone feel politically liable and move mountains to get things done. Would the administration have responded more forcefully in say, the DC suburbs, yes, because they would be the ones affected in that case, but besides that these would be people who largely affected their careers. They aren’t going to screw that up. The response was not exactly “I see black people on CNN; they are a different race; no need to help them”. It is more accurate, I think, to say that racial disparity created a situation where they didn’t have the power to put pressure on the people who could have done more. It is more of a means than an end.</p>
<p>If you are going to divide it by race, which I personally still don’t think is true, then how united were the black congressmen in trying to unify and get relief? How about the rich blacks in this country, such as the founders and owners of BET and other wealthy blacks? The very successful black athletes? Other black groups and leaders? </p>
<p>There was also alot of random crime going on, which was also covered on TV, and made it difficult to respond in some areas. People were even shooting at the medical staff in the hospitals. And on they worked.</p>
<p>The fact is that even if the rich blacks attempted to help, NO HELP was getting in.</p>
<p>I will never ever forget the Fox newsman, Shepard Smith, weeping in the Superdome, begging for help, as he was holding a dying baby. Or Geraldo Rivera, doing the same. These are right wing pundits and newsmen, who absolutely witnessed the devastation first hand, could not believe that his was America (and said as much numerous times, because it looked worse than Bangladesh), and were demanding that help be delivered.</p>
<p>And how much longer did it take for help to arrive? Days. It was a national disgrace, and we all witnessed it 24/7 on national TV.</p>
<p>Collegialmom, as I understand it, of the reports of random gunplay that you cite, most were unfounded, i.e. rumour and urban myth.</p>
<p>And as for racism, a few stranded white tourists whom were among the large group of black citizens trying to cross that bridge to safety, were terrified at the site of the white deputies facing them at the other end of the bridge, forcing the refugees to retreat at gunpoint back to New Orleans. In their own words, they later testified their own feelings that it was sheer repugnant racism that confronted the suffering crowd that day.</p>
<p>“in America we can get cameras in to tape babies limp with dehydration, but apparently not water.”</p>
<p>Wasn’t that extraordinary? My best friend is a producer at ABC News. Crews got down there right away in air-conditioned Winnebagos with plenty of water, electricity, etc. to keep them and their cameras going. They were sent in to do an important job – God only knows how much worse it might have gotten if those images hadn’t been all over the TV – but they were placed in a horrible position. What do you do when you’re faced with a thousand people dying of thirst and you have, say, 10 bottles of water that you will need yourself?</p>
<p>“The Katrina situation has a lot to do with class, and something to do with race also. Honestly, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. These were disenfranchised communities, largely minority (which may tie into some of the disenfranchisement) that weren’t capable of putting the pressure on the government that would need to be put on to make someone feel politically liable and move mountains to get things done.”</p>
<p>So you are saying that no squeaky wheel could get the oil, even if the balck community had been rallying, as maybe they did or did not?</p>
<p>The reason I think that this response was race blind is that if you look at their response plans to other types of crises, they are also inefficient and ignore facts. After 9/11, for instance, in terms of the health of the workers, the government agencies for months ignored the warnings about the toxic exposure that the workers were getting, and how to protect them. Now there are many workers with lung and other problems.</p>
<p>The death toll and other problems at the Dome turned out to be more fiction than fact. The hysteria made the truth the first victim. Most off the alleged horror stories turned out to be just that–stories.</p>
<p>Barrons, did you blindly keep you teevee set off during the Katrina disaster?</p>
<p>I wasn’t there physically, but I witnessed the horror with my own eyes on the news…bodies slumped in wheelchairs and covered with tarps or blankets, because the individual had already died…dehydrated babies and children, crying mothers. Babies who had been “passed forward” for bottles of formula or water, and were never “passed back” appropriately to the correct mother…children separated from parents or loved one…all there in the Superdome. Stinking high trash, no food, no water. Bedlam and mayhem.</p>
<p>I heard newscasters crying over the situation…and you want to claim this was fiction?</p>
<p>Read the reports. Much of what passed for news was pure fantasy. Newscasters get paid to get you to watch. If histrionics work (Geraldo) they won’t hesitate. Like the insane Police Chief “They are raping babies in there” . Pure fiction.</p>
<p>I went to NOLA and saw the damage for myself. Vast upper income white and mixed areas were as hard hit as the poor black areas. Did you see or hear about that? The news tells the story they want you to hear.</p>
<p>“If you are going to divide it by race, which I personally still don’t think is true, then how united were the black congressmen in trying to unify and get relief? How about the rich blacks in this country, such as the founders and owners of BET and other wealthy blacks? The very successful black athletes? Other black groups and leaders?”</p>
<p>Honestly Collegialmom, what planet do you live on? Your ability to ignore bald-faced reality outstrips even that of CC’s usual see-no-evil/hear-no-evil/speak-no-evil conservatives. You don’t “recall” the race of the majority of NO’s televised katrina evacuees"—REALLY? You “personally” don’t believe race was a factor in the response to the Katrina disaster. Yes, I guess it would be easy to think that if you ignore America’s 250 year history of slavery and the 100 years of Jim Crow that followed. This isn’t ancient history. I lived under Jim Crow for most of my childhood, and I’m only 50 years old! Trust me on this, the passing of the Civil Rights and Voting Acts didn’t magically erase centuries of racist thinking. </p>
<p>And now you ask where all the black leaders were during this crisis? Well, if you weren’t watching closely enough to ascertain the race of the storm victims during televised coverage, how can you possibly recall the instances of unity and outrage expressed by prominent blacks of all strips in response to the Government’s egregious lack of response, or their efforts to aid the victims? There was PLENTY of response from the black community to the Katrina disaster, but they weren’t any more successful in moving the government to action than Walmart corporation, with its tens of semi-tractor trailers full of life saving water, forced to wait for days outside city limits, or the major news network correspondents holding dying babies in front of television cameras.</p>
<p>I stand corrected, Collegialmom. Barrons is obviously living on Planet Denial with you.</p>
<p>“I went to NOLA and saw the damage for myself. Vast upper income white and mixed areas were as hard hit as the poor black areas. Did you see or hear about that? The news tells the story they want you to hear.”</p>
<p>Really Barrons? When did visit these neighborhoods? Was it in the days immediately following the storm? If so, did you also talk to the thousands of trapped victims waving white tee shirts from the roofs of their houses, and using styrofoam coolers as rafts to ferry their toddlers through flooded streets? Did you interview any of the homeowners in these “vast upper income white and mixed” neighborhoods while they clung to hope waiting for rescue?</p>
<p>The race of the majority of evacuees was African-American.</p>
<p>The fact that the vast majority of them had no personal support system in place with which to deal with this disaster was tragic. It was horrible to witness. I’d be willing to say that it was the first time many Americans witnessed such abject poverty up close. What was amazing in the Fox coverage (which seemed to give more coverage to this than the major networks, for sure–we all seem to remember Shep Smith and Geraldo) was that it also showed the humanity and bravery and faith of so many of the victims. Many of the elderly people they interviewed on the scene were positively majestic.</p>
<p>Do I think that on the whole the mess of a response was due to racism? No. I’m sure there were racist human beings in the thick of it, as there are racist human beings in the thick of everything in life; but to lay all the blame at the feet of Bush, Brownie and racism, is being just as much in denial as saying most of the victims were not black.</p>
<p>“The Katrina situation has a lot to do with class, and something to do with race also. Honestly, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. These were disenfranchised communities, largely minority (which may tie into some of the disenfranchisement) that weren’t capable of putting the pressure on the government that would need to be put on to make someone feel politically liable and move mountains to get things done. Would the administration have responded more forcefully in say, the DC suburbs, yes, because they would be the ones affected in that case, but besides that these would be people who largely affected their careers. They aren’t going to screw that up. The response was not exactly “I see black people on CNN; they are a different race; no need to help them”. It is more accurate, I think, to say that racial disparity created a situation where they didn’t have the power to put pressure on the people who could have done more. It is more of a means than an end.”</p>
<p>I was referring to the fact that there are black leaders and if the feeling is that there wasn’t help for blacks because they are disenfranchised, then there are black leaders in this country. Blacks are not that powerless, there is black wealth and power. Now the mood on this thread has switched to no one was listened to, black, Asian, Hispanic, etc etc, because there were blacks in New Orleans stranded.</p>
<p>It may be, poetsheart, that some of us may have other perspectives. To constantly view the world in terms of your own particular real or imagined hardships gets old, as other people always have worse stories to tell. I have worked with so many people that have overcome so much, and are kind and cheerful about it, no grudges. Makes the world a much better place.</p>
<p>So Barrons, you were there, in the NOLA, in the garbage stinking Superdome, without food or water or functioning toilets? You were there, trying to cross the bridge to MS, and forced, by armed guards, to turn BACK to the horror of high floodwaters? </p>
<p>So, you witnessed this all first hand, huh, and it is all a big fantasy, a big “story”? Just a bunch of actors, making good for FOX tv? Good for the ratings and all…</p>