And why is he asking about that? How is it at all relevant to racial or gender preferences? What, if I don’t support racial or gender preferences, then “logically” I shouldn’t support accommodations for the disabled, either? If that’s what florida26 is trying to say, then that is one of the worst uses of the slippery slope fallacy I have seen recently.
GAMom got it right. At least she understands. How about you VOR are you okay with special accommodations and privileges for the disabled??
Are special ed kids not disabled? Aren’t we talking about Affirmative Action in college admissions? Aren’t we discussing the pros/cons about giving huge preferences to kids just because of the color of their skins?
I am sure, like me, that people who are against discrimination in the college admission process are not against providing ramps for kids that are in wheel chairs or other accommodations for disabled people’s needs to make their lives a bit easier.
But I am positive that those who support racial or gender preferences would not support giving accommodation and preferences to those who do not have the mental abilities to attend top schools. Why would pro AA people not support giving special ed kids opportunities to get into top schools? You guessed it academic mismatch.
VOR you have taken a page out of fabrizios play book. You make lots of argument with no facts to back up your claims… The average black person will score 200 points lower than the average Asian on the SAT just on income considerations alone. Factor in the educational attainment of the mom and dad and most of the difference between groups can be explained The average disabled person may have special needs that caused them to miss a lot of high school. I guess you would hold that against them if they scored low on the SAT rather than consider the individual as a whole in a holistic approach.
You are not against discrimination as you self proclaim. You are actually in favor of discrimination because it meets your own self needs. I guess we can add the disabled to the list of blacks latinos and women
florida26 Are you saying that if income is the same between a black and an Asian that the “average black person will score 200 points lower than the average Asian on the SAT just on income considerations alone” or are you saying that if income level is the same that the average SAT of both blacks and Asians will be the same? Please clarify and provide your data source.
And what does “You are not against discrimination as you self proclaim. You are actually in favor of discrimination because it meets your own self needs” mean? Are you saying that since I am not in favor of discrimination that means that I am discriminatory??? That is illogical and utter nonsense.
And are you confirming that special needs kids who have learning disabilities should be given preferences and accommodations to elite universities? No words to describe how ridiculous that proposition is.
And why do you wish to discriminate against white and Asian college applicants? You have not elaborated why discriminating against whites and Asians is a good thing for them.
OK, so florida26 is actually saying racial classification and gender are comparable to a disability. And of course, none of the pro-racial preference people are calling him out on such absurd nonsense.
Contrary to GAMom’s beliefs of my reading comprehension, it appears that my reading of florida26 comments were right on target. Any comment from you GAMom since you defended florida26 and criticized me for my reading of florida26’s posts.
Fabrizio LEARN some professionalism. Stop calling people names. Bullying is not acceptable. I have yet to see any facts from either one of the two of you. The only thing I see the two of your say is that SAT scores should count for everything. Kids with learning disabilities are required to receive special accommodations at post secondary schools whether elite or not. That is part of the ADA. So I guess now VOR you are advocating violating the ADA and section 504 of the rehabilitation Act of 1973??? Fabrizio I never said using race and gender as part of a holistic approach is the same as a disability. You know that. Please stop making stuff up. I just keep pointing out more and more different areas that show your bias towards different groups. I find it sad to say the least
That means your reading comprehension ability is poor, to put it mildly. I challenge you to quote a SINGLE instance where I have said “that SAT scores should count for everything.”
No, what you’re doing is using a slippery slope fallacy to argue that since I accept accommodations for the disabled, to be consistent, I should also accept racial and gender preferences. That is complete nonsense. Moreover, it is unbelievably perverse that refusing to support racial and gender preferences implies “bias towards different groups.”
I feel like I am making progress. So you think more than SAT should be considered in regards to college acceptance. Are you okay with the holistic approach to college admissions except for the one item of race and gender? Or do you think only certain things should be considered? If so what are those certain things? I just want to know what are your criteria
As a completely separate issue for the disabled do you think the holistic approach should apply in regards to admission except for race and gender? In other words are you okay with reasonable accommodations such as extra time on tests, use of recording devices in classrooms, use of special tutors etc. after evaluation by the holistic approach? Or again do you think only certain things should be considered?
Fabrizio if you could answer without calling me names it would be appreciated
Nice way of admitting that you can’t quote a SINGLE time I have said “that SAT scores should count for everything” without having to admit anything at all. But that’s OK; I make do with what I have.
What does “the holistic approach” mean, exactly? Simple: consider both objective and subjective criteria. I have nothing against that. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to consider extracurriculars, essays, and recommendations. People like you always say that the colleges want a “well rounded” class. By all means, seek students such that the class has a wide variety of talents, interests, and ideas.
What I fail to see is how considering racial classification and gender improves an entering class’s diversity of talents, interests, and ideas. If you want a debate champion, then pick a debate champion. You don’t have to give racial or gender preferences to get a debate champion. If you want people who are interested in philosophy, then pick a student who has written an essay detailing his passion for philosophy. You don’t have to give racial or gender preferences to get a student interested in philosophy. And so forth.
Accommodations for the disabled have nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with racial and gender preferences.
If you could have some intellectual honesty and not assert that I have made statements I have in fact never made, I would appreciate that. Significantly.
TalentOver Because a smart man once said “Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.” Having high SAT is no guarantee that a student will work to achieve his/her potential. It may be a good start but Work Effort is also important and may be more so. Course difficulty and GPA are factors that to show Effort. Further in all the research that I have read, GPA and SAT is a better predictor of success than either GPA or SAT alone.
So, I would not base all admission decisions on just the SAT like you would.
Talent you have probably never done advanced math but a latino and a muslim woman recently won the fields medal!!! What is this world becoming???
florida26 What does that have to do with giving racial and gender preferences???
nothing. I was just responding to Talents quote at 1730 that he didn’t like the “diversity nonsense” in his math classes
Would you mind cutting back (preferably to zero, but any decrease will do) your use of red herrings?
Talent from what you just described the answer is no. Sorry
TalentOver What you state is so not true if you are saying that a 2100 or 2200 SAT person could not figure out your econ exam problem vs 2400 scorers. Now I would agree with you that a person who scored 1200/2400 would probably not be able to figure out the problem because it exceeds his/her cognitive abilities. But that is a far cry from granting admission to elite schools solely on how high one scores.
florida26 I too wish you would stop tossing red herrings and just answer the questions posed to you.
fabizio. I will cut back if you can get talent to stop his attacks on women and diversity… Do we have a deal?
florida26 How is fabrizio going to do anything to stop someone else on this site? This is another diversion tactic and it is unbecoming.