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<p>Yes, but being perceived as belonging to a group of inherently less intelligence is often more detrimental than belonging to a group that is believed to be inherently less athletic or socially capable. Moreover, these traits are less relevant to college admissions: there are plenty of non-athletic, unpopular people who get into top colleges, but there aren’t many many dumb ones.</p>
<p>Since ORMs are Asians, and since they have names like Chung and Daswani, and since you probably have a last name to the tune of Butterfield or Goldberg, I wouldn’t worry about being mistaken for an ORM.</p>
<p>@dreamormoney…True, I didn’t think of that, thanks :). But if I’m not going to be mistaken for an ORM, I will likely not be mistaken for a URM. So it does not matter whether I put white or I do not specify?</p>
<p>“Yes, but being perceived as belonging to a group of inherently less intelligence is often more detrimental than belonging to a group that is believed to be inherently less athletic or socially capable.”</p>
<p>I disagree, as social success is often just as, if not more, vital to happiness as intelligence is.</p>
<p>“Moreover, these traits are less relevant to college admissions: there are plenty of non-athletic, unpopular people who get into top colleges, but there aren’t many many dumb ones.”</p>
<p>But it’s relevant to so many other things that are just as important, if not more, as what college you go to. As someone pointed out, should there be Affirmative Action in the NBA then? For the sake of equality, should people opt for affirmative action when they’re making friend?</p>
<p>But colleges aren’t going around saying “Ooooh this person looks HAPPY :)!! Let’s admit them!!! :)” It’s more about creating a successful person rather than a happy one, and athletic ability and (to a lesser extent social ability) are not necessarily requirements for success</p>
<p>Yes, but social ability, to at least as much an extent as intelligence, is a requirement for happiness. Academic and monetary success are not.</p>
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<p>Since when we were discussing happiness? I’m speaking solely within the sphere of college admissions.</p>
<p>I was under the impression that you believed that URMs are often inhibited from reaching their full intellectual potential because they are perceived to be less intelligent, and as such should receive AA to compensate for that handicap in college admissions. </p>
<p>By that same logic, as Asians are perceived to be less athletic and less socially capable, they should receive AA to compensate for that handicap in areas that pertain to athletic and social abilities, such as in professional sports or politics.</p>
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<p>No, I don’t believe that I have been that direct.</p>
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<p>Sports are not analogous to college admissions. Accceptance into college is not meant to be a pure sign of merit; it is merely an acceptance of a student to study at that college. Sports events are, in contrast, meritocratic competitions by design.</p>
<p>dreamormoney:</p>
<p>Why yes, yes they should. Btw…do you know of any white or asian only schools? I’d love to set up a school to compete with spellman and howard.</p>
<p>Silverturtle:</p>
<p>You have written a ton about college admissions (GREAT GUIDE BTW!!!), and they are indeed holistic. Sports, thus, are indeed a factor in college admissions just as academics are. If asians cannot excell sufficiently in that realm of merit then why should they not be compensated for this deficiency as many URM are compensated for their lower SAT scores?</p>
<p>“No, I don’t believe that I have been that direct.”</p>
<p>Ok, sorry to misunderstand you. So uh, why exactly do you support Affirmative Action?</p>
<p>“Sports are not analogous to college admissions. Accceptance into college is not meant to be a pure sign of merit; it is merely an acceptance of a student to study at that college. Sports events are, in contrast, meritocratic competitions by design.”</p>
<p>Acceptance into a sports team is based on how well the candidate will perform on the team, and how much the candidate will contribute to the team. Acceptance into college is, or at least I think it is, based on how well the student will perform in college, and how much the candidate will contribute to the college. I think an analogy between the two isn’t inconceivable.</p>
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<p>Plenty of people who aren’t athletes get in, but very few people without great scores get in. People who don’t do sports can find good substitutes and can still have great EC portfolios. </p>
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<p>If a sports team thinks that having an ethnically/racially diverse team will improve their performance, then they can practice Affirmative Action if they wish to. Colleges certainly feel that diversity of ethnicity/race will improve their campuses. </p>
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<p>I don’t believe that I have said that I do.</p>
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<p>Asians can’t excel in sports? So what race is Yao Ming, a Native American?</p>
<p>You can’t overgeneralize: similarly, you have to take into account life circumstances. The most fair URM system gives no benefits to wealthy URMs, while taking into account socioeconomic status, life circumstances, ties to said race, and other important issues. If adcoms reformat the system in that direction, far more low-to-mid-income URMs like myself will get into top institutions. But there is a major roadblock: poor Latinos and African Americans will almost never get a 2100 or higher on the SAT. The SAT corrrelates with family income: so it’s a miracle for anyone with a family income of less than 60,000 to receive a 2200 or higher, unless at least one parent attended grad school, which is highly unlikely given the income.</p>
<p>So far, all roads have led to nowhere. I’m starting to believe this whole argument is pointless. We can’t do anything to change it. If Asians aren’t satsfied when they are 300% overrepresented or more at schools like HYPSM, there’s nothing left I can say. Yes, they’re very hardworking in general, but this is supposed to be a country of opportunity, and top schools are making it exceedingly difficult for this opportunity to come to low income URMs and White/Asians alike because such high test scores are needed for admission.</p>
<p>“If a sports team thinks that having an ethnically/racially diverse team will improve their performance, then they can practice Affirmative Action if they wish to. Colleges certainly feel that diversity of ethnicity/race will improve their campuses.”</p>
<p>I see. So if colleges felt that having a balanced mix of fat and skinny people would improve their campuses, then they are also at liberty to practice affirmative action based on body fat percentage as well. I think I understand. Colleges are like employers in this regard, they can do whatever the hell they want regarding admissions, including favor certain ethnicities over others for perceived benefits to their campuses. </p>
<p>“I don’t believe that I have said that I do.”</p>
<p>Oh… So why don’t you support affirmative action?</p>
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<p>Why do you feel the need to force an opinion out of a poster who wishes to remain neutral? He didn’t say that he supported it; likewise, he didn’t say that he was against it.</p>
<p>Silverturtle seems like an intelligent person with a fairly well-informed perspective on the whole affirmative action debate, which is why I would like to learn more about his opinions. I’m sorry if I asked him for his opinions in a manner that you found offensive.</p>
<p>Lol, if you want to ask someone about their position regarding AA, say:</p>
<p>“Do you support AA, dislike AA, or not have an opinion?”</p>
<p>Don’t assume that one supports something and then ask him why he doesn’t when he merely replies that he didn’t say he did or didn’t.</p>
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<p>No need to be sorry. I’m just too talkative sometimes. :)</p>
<p>I see. Well, thank you for the lesson in uh, etiquette, lol.</p>
<p>decrescendo you can be so hostile in one post but then back off completely in the next post…just something I noticed.</p>
<p>So if SAT scores correspond completely with socioeconomic status, why not do away with AA altogether and just give benefits to the poor in general? The fact of the matter is many people (like myself) get very bitter when we see URMs from wealthy households get into top schools without top scores. However, we as unhooked applicants have to put in the effort to get that 2300+ and do everything in our power to maximize our chances.</p>