<p>I too would like to see some evidence to back up your statements, particularly about zip codes. I would also like to see you generalize your statements to URM’s as a whole. You seem to place an overwhelming emphasis on the “black world”. What about the “latino world”, or the “native american world”? Hmm?</p>
<p>Question to perraziman,</p>
<p>Is your son in a high school with majority white or black population? (I think you can answer this while no one will ask you for evidence on this one.)</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying what you meant about the PSATs. It sounds like your son’s early school experience was certainly lacking quite a bit. I am wondering, though, if you are saying, that the school was deficient because it primarily served an African American population, or because it was in a poor area. If it was due to poverty, this problem would presumably affect any racial group in a poor area. One would assume that any child in a similarly inadequate school district would thrive in the district where your child eventually went to high school. </p>
<p>I know I’m late to the discussion, and I’m very aware of how African American students, who are in inadequate schools, often blossom when placed in a stimulating environment. The concern I have is that children of all races who are impoverished also benefit from better schools. Poverty, suffering and limited community support occur in families of all races.</p>
<p>[New</a> York Times: To Enroll More Minority Students, Colleges Work Around the Courts](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us/college-affirmative-action-policies-change-with-laws.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1]New”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us/college-affirmative-action-policies-change-with-laws.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1):</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Affirmative action is racist, vindictive, and woefully ineffective in its purposes.</p>
<p>It’s a euphemism for racial discrimination; yes, it sounds ugly, but the fact of the matter is that the reality is often quite ugly to face.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This was a complete joke.</p>
<p>While I support the moves to get more URMs into schools, the whole trying to cover it up under the “holistic” argument is completely bogus.</p>
<p>When UCLA saw a rise in URM students, the group that saw a resulting drop was low-income Asian students and not well-to-do Asian students or white students.</p>
<p>Are we to believe that URM students (many of them from lower socio-economic backgrounds) are going to outdo Asian or white students from well-to-do backgrounds when it comes to ECs?</p>
<p>But certainly, their overcoming barriers and not having the advantages that other applicants have is worthy of consideration, but then why doesn’t that also apply to Asian applicants from lower socio-economic backgrounds?</p>
<p>Like I stated before, schools use the “holistics” thing as a convenient way for them to cover for how they want to make-up their student body.</p>
<p>It’s the reason why the elite schools get away w/ black students from immigrant families being overrepresented (arguing “diversity”) when Asian students diversity (which is more diverse) is not even considered.</p>
<p>“But certainly, their overcoming barriers and not having the advantages that other applicants have is worthy of consideration, but then why doesn’t that also apply to Asian applicants from lower socio-economic backgrounds?”</p>
<p>So low income Asian students don’t get the extra points for income, adversity and/or ELC at the UC’s? I had not heard that. I was under the impression low income Asians were well represented at UC’s. Or maybe you mean they are there, but only because they are “qualified”, so nothing else was considered. Or maybe you mean reviewers won’t look at that info (socio economic group, class rank, adversity) at other schools if they know you are Asian.</p>
<p>In trying to find information on the above, I found this. Sort of interesting. </p>
<p>“The Regents of the University of California
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATIONAL POLICY
July 14-15, 2010”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/regents/minutes/2010/edpol7.pdf[/url]”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/regents/minutes/2010/edpol7.pdf</a></p>
<p>[Campus</a> diversity suffers under race-blind policies | Fox News](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/21/campus-diversity-suffers-under-race-blind-policies-2081929089/]Campus”>Campus diversity suffers under race-blind policies | Fox News)</p>
<p>It seems to me the new trend is to give preference to students are the “1st in family to attend college”. Why should this be rewarded? I was the first in my family but now my D is penalized?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A few w/ particularly egregious stories/backgrounds may get that benefit, but overall, the stats trump everything - which is why more well-to-do Asians weren’t affected while those from a lower socio-economic background were.</p>
<p>Same applies to any school, not just the UC’s (schools like Harvard are going to admit the Asians w/ the very best stats w/ a few exceptions - which is Asians at the top schools are largely made up of Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian and Pakistani students w/ parents who are highly educated while those from lower socio-economic backgrounds as well as Asian ethnicities which have less success when it comes to higher education due to various factors - the Hmong, Viets, Filipinos, Laotians, Malay, etc. are underrepresented).</p>
<p>Another reason why the whole “diversity” and “holistic” argument is a bunch of BS.</p>
<p>Note that these top schools which basically have quotas on the no. of Asian-American students meanwhile have no problem chasing overseas Asian students from… **China, Korea and India<a href=“Asian%20ethnicities%20which%20are%20already%20well%20represented”>/b</a>.</p>
<p>Since I came on this site I saw applicants with 2400 SAT’s or 36 ACT’s been rejected from top schools and all of them are Asians or Asian Americans. </p>
<p>Can anyone find applicants of any other race been rejected at any top schools with perfect SAT or ACT scores? </p>
<p>If there isn’t any applicant of other race been rejected at top colleges with perfect test scores, then there is another case to start with.</p>
<p>"A few w/ particularly egregious stories/backgrounds may get that benefit, but overall, the stats trump everything "</p>
<p>So would I be correct in assuming you are saying “the Hmong, Viets, Filipinos, Laotians, Malay, etc.”, and poor Asians are underrepresented compared to Mexican and African American students at the UC’s? Do you have a link handy? I’m guessing it’s on statfinder. I will have to check that out. Hard to beleive Filipino’s are under represnted at UC’s, especially. </p>
<p>Personally I would NOT assume UC’s are the same as Harvard and other “Top” East coast schools.</p>
<p>Not sure what to make of that.</p>
<p>Nope, not divided into sub groups in statfinder. Closest I could find;</p>
<p><a href=“The Greenlining Institute”>The Greenlining Institute;
<p>"I found this; </p>
<p>“Filipino Americans make up nearly a quarter of California’s Asian American population, but only about 6% of the UC’s medical school
matriculants.”</p>
<p>“The “Other Asian” category includes Thai, Cambodian,
Hmong, Laotian, Malaysian, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan,
and Indonesian among others. Between 2004 and 2007,
we see in Figure 17 that the “Other Asian” population
was well‐represented with a trend toward
parity.”</p>
<p>and </p>
<p>"Vietnamese
Between 2004 and 2007 Vietnamese American students
matriculated at their proportional representation among
Californiaʹs Asian American population. (Figure 12)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think there are several on CC, silverturtle being one of them. You may have to have data to back up your claim, so next time when an adcom says that they reject more perfect scorers, ask for their ethnicity.</p>
<p>This looks good!</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.calstate.edu/externalrelations/documents/API-Education-MRP-Report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.calstate.edu/externalrelations/documents/API-Education-MRP-Report.pdf</a></p>
<p>BTW, I think it is extremely important that these groups are adequately represented here in California, especially in schools, medical care, and social services.</p>
<p>"Can anyone find applicants of any other race been rejected at any top schools with perfect SAT or ACT scores? "</p>
<p>Would the N matter? It seems those numbers might be so small, at least in most subgroups, that it might be hard to reach statistical significance.</p>
<p>lake42ks,</p>
<p>What was my claim??</p>
<p>I was merely asking questions, stating what I saw and saying ‘if’. Read a post carefully. please.</p>
<p>I read “if”…", then …“there is another case to start with.” as a claim. Did I misunderstand?</p>
<p>Note that these top schools which basically have quotas on the no. of Asian-American students…</p>
<p>I don’t know where some folks get these notions. I certainly don’t think it’s proveable. Media hype or hot-head web sites don’t count.</p>
<p>Btw, since Harvard was included in the mention of some sort of conspiracy: Harvard freshmen in 2010-11: about 15% were Asian American- the 2010 Census notes Asian Americans comprise 4.8 % in the general population. This year’s class: 18%. The Common Data Set indicates international students are to be listed as non-resident aliens, a separate tally.</p>
<p>And, where do you find proof that these Asian Americans are from higher educated familes and higher socio-eco strata? You know their details? Or, you suspect it’s so? At the need-blind schools, adcoms are not privy to financial data.</p>
<p>shrinkrap,</p>
<p>You had the structure you should know it is a “conditional sentence”!!! I was asking if that condition is met or not. I would accept it if the condition is not met. 
This is called a data/evidence collection process.</p>
<p>I will spend some time tonight to read the data provided by others. Any other ones?</p>
<p>This TED video ([Moral</a> behavior in animals](<a href=“http://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals.html]Moral”>http://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals.html)) provides lots of food for thought; pun intended when you see the fairness experiments starting at 12:30 into the presentation.</p>
<p>Something to keep in mind as the social policy of Affirmative Action is debated in this forum.</p>