Rank Dilemma; Need Thoughtful Parent Input

Parents Forum
1

<p>Here is a letter I sent to Stanford in my midyear - an explanation of low class rank signed by several teachers and counselor with a recalculated rank. My questions: how do you think they will view this? Simply making excuses? Whining? Considering this recalculated rank my true rank? Excessive info?</p>

<p>If context is needed my numbers are otherwise perfect:2400/80/12/800/800/790/790/5/5/5/5/5/5/4.0UW GPA and my rank after 1st semester is 32/350.</p>

<p>Dear Admissions Officer,</p>

<p>I was recently disappointed in discovering that my class rank is 39/350. After contacting the principal and registrar I discovered the following idiosyncrasies in the XXXXXXX GPA weighting system (this is the first year XXXXXXX has tried weighting grades):</p>

<p>1) Zero-period jazz band (even Jazz Ensemble I) is weighted as non-honors despite being an additional eighth period which meets at 6:30AM every day before school.</p>

<p>2) Courses in XXXXXXXX School District’s Spanish Immersion Program (learning Spanish since Kindergarten) are weighted as non-honors despite the very high-level language skills taught (as evidenced by my 5/5 AP Spanish Language and 790/800 Spanish Listening SATII scores).</p>

<p>XXXXXXX’s Jazz Ensemble I is an extremely prestigious group (Lionel Hampton Jazz Festival 3A Division Winner five years running) and is just as demanding as an AP class. Likewise, Spanish Immersion students are fluent by 6th grade and learn extraordinarily advanced Spanish skills during high school.</p>

<p>I don’t feel my rank reflects the rigor of my course load relative to that of my peers (for example, between 9th and 11th grades 8/350 took 4 AP tests, while I took 5 last year alone); according to the registrar, weighting these Spanish Immersion and Jazz Ensemble I courses as honors level brings my weighted GPA from its current 4.3542 to 4.6042, equivalent to class rank 3/350. </p>

<p>In short, I hope my official rank will not be the deciding factor barring my acceptance to Stanford University, as I believe it is inaccurate and should be discarded.</p>

<p>Thanks for taking the time to consider my situation,</p>

<p>(signature here)</p>

<p>XXXXXX XXXXXXX (me)</p>

<p>(signature here)</p>

<p>XXXX XXXXXXXXXXX, Guidance Counselor</p>

<p>(signature here)</p>

<p>XXXX XXXXXX, Spanish Immersion Teacher</p>

<p>(signature here)</p>

<p>XXXX XXXXXXXXXX, Band Director</p>

2

<p>You appear to be an excellent student, with great credentials. More importantly, you sent the letter already, so I am not certain what purpose our comments with serve. But you asked for comments, so here are mine.</p>

<p>It sounds like whining. Worse, it sounds like you spent too much time worrying about something that is not that important and getting people to sign your letter. A fighter who takes time to drag others into the fight. </p>

<p>Everyone knows that HS rankings are imperfect! (My kid’s ranking is lower because she didn’t take PE at the community college, like other students. . . ) The most I would have done, under these circumstances, is to note that under your school’s policy several of your classes are not weighted as honors, even though they are vigorous. I would have said that if they had been so weighted, your rank would be significantly higher. I would not give the details about all this stuff. The most I would have done is listed the names of the classes and your guidance counselor’s name for further information.</p>

<p>Admissions’ office don’t want to deal with kids who cry out about every injustice in the world. Finally, your math may be flawed unless you also boosted the other kids’ rankings who took vigorous courses but were not given honor’s weight. Sorry.</p>

3

<p>I agree with the previous poster…you’ve already proven that your an outstanding student. I think this will just show that you are a little to numbers driven. Good luck with everything though! You have a great shot of getting in!!!</p>

4

<p>well there seems to be consensus that i screwed up…i appreciate the input…and to columbia2002: for the most part posters on cc are also real people with real feelings so don’t just rattle off hurtful comments…i never intended to hurt anyone via this post or any other</p>

5

<p>treewannabe, </p>

<p>Stanford will be lucky to have you. :-)</p>

<p>You have excellent stats. I think an explanation was necessary. Stanford admissions would have been puzzled how an applicant with your stats could have a rank in the 30s. There is a big difference between a 39 and a 3. I would not take everything on CC as gospel. I think your letter at best, would have helped, at worst, it would not have mattered. Best wishes!!!</p>

6

<p>I think it would have been better if the explanation had come only from your GC, not from you and your GC.</p>

<p>I doubt, however, that the letter will make you or break you with admissions. Admissions officers are people who probably have more empathy than Columbia2002’s insensitively worded comment implied.</p>

<p>The major lesson from all of this probably is to ask people’s advice before sending a letter or application instead of afterward. All that our comments are doing now is causing you unproductive worry.</p>

7

<p>Actually, though nothing can be done about it at this point, I think the letter was a mistake – this is the sort of thing that should have been explained in one or two sentences by the GC with the midyear report. Colleges are aware of the vagaries of ranking, and there are many kids whose class ranks are brought down because of grades in gym or band classes - so it can easily be explained. It would have been much better or more appropriate if the GC had simply written that you are one of the strongest students at the school, but that your rank is lower because of the vagaries of your school’s ranking system. </p>

<p>But I honestly don’t think the letter will hurt you – mostly because the ad coms don’t have time to dwell on that sort of stuff. Your admission/rejection is more likely to be decided on whether Stanford thinks it needs more jazz musicians this year to keep its own ensembles filled. That is - I think the point that comes through the strongest is a reminder that you are a helluva good jazz player. (Spanish fluency is great, too - but fairly common among Stanford’s applicants so not much of a hook).</p>

8

<p>

Many would disagree that class rank is “not that important” - there’s a current thread in this forum (5 pages long and counting) debating the matter, in response to a NY Times article last week in which various admissions reps bemoaned the trend away from class rank. Wouldn’t it be hypocritical for an adcom to think, “Jeez, this kid is obsessed about class rank” when ranking continues to be a factor in admissions decisions?</p>

<p>I agree that it would have been preferable for the GC to address the issue. I couldn’t help wondering why he/she didn’t offer to do so when the student presented the letter for signing. Still, we hear all the time that kids are supposed to take the initiative with admissions questions, be in the driver’s seat during the entire process, etc. Maybe the adrep will see it that way.</p>

<p>It sounds as if there are still a few bugs in the weighting system the school has adopted. The elite jazz ensemble group and Spanish Immersion program may be great classes, but they’re a poor GPA investment as things stand now. A non-weighting policy would encourage students to pursue their interests without sacrificing points for rank. </p>

<p>treewannabe, I hope it works out for you. There is no whiny language in your letter, and it’s short and to the point. And they’ll certainly know you want Stanford.</p>

9

<p>sounds like a necessary explanation to me. otherwise class rank seems low. no whining tone that I detect. the only irritating tones are in the early responders who dismiss your concern with class rank as grade grubbing.</p>

10

<p>Although it may have been better from the GC, I thought it sounded professional and shows your keen interest in attending the program.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

11

<p>Although I think the GC should have been the one doing the explanation, I think the explanation WAS necessary. There’s a difference between a #3 and a #32! The letter does not sound whiny. Good luck, treewannabe. You have great credentials, and your record does not make you sound in the least grade-grubbing.</p>

12

<p>I think the letter was perfect, and a necessary explanation of an anomaly in your record. It’s too bad that it was necessary, but it’s not your fault that colleges depend on class ranks for admissions decisions. You make a strong case for yourself, and I can’t imagine that the committee will not view it positively.</p>

13

<p>Here’s my two cents worth. Stop worrying. You’re record is excellent. Your rank is good even without the explanation, and you did what you thought was right. Sleep well at night and good luck.</p>

14

<p>Well, I happen to think that the letter WILL help, and that it was not a mistake to send it. Further, I believe that its format was not a mistake, as it shows that the student took the initiative to not only document its case but also obtain the support of the teachers and GC involved.</p>

<p>If there is ONE constant message with which I have to disagree on CC is the recurrent advice to remain passive and let guidance counselors, teachers, or coaches speak on behalf of students. The reality is that adcoms want to hear the voice of the STUDENT as well as the corroboration of others. In this case, the student did accomplish that with flying colors. We should not forget that the application belongs to the STUDENT, and that it is HIS entire responsibility to present himself in the best and most accurate way possible. Simply stated, GC and teachers hardly have as much at stake as the student does. On a personal note, I think that everyone would benefit from continuing efforts to relegate the role and “opinions” of outsiders to the much smaller role they deserve. For instance, I applaud the schools -such as Stanford- that do NOT use interviewers, and have thus eliminated such pointless charade from their admission criteria. Admission offices and sport coaches WANT to hear from the students and they should appreciate the efforts of students displaying respectful initiative. </p>

<p>Lastly, many applications specifically allow students to provide additional explanations. Students should not hesitate to send JUSTIFIED explanations in, and not hope for the schools to magically find the correct interpretation.</p>

15

<p>Agree with those who think the explanation was necessary. Certainly better to have come from the GC, but your letter did NOT sound whiny to me. Stanford (at least on its transfer apps) offers a place for “Additional information.” Your letter contains just what you might have put in that spot, had you known the information at time of submittal. I don’t think it will adversely affect you to have sent the letter. Good luck.</p>

16

<p>I might have advised phrasing a couple of things a little differently in the letter, but overall, a good idea, and a clear explanation of how someone with a near “perfect” academic record could end up being low in rank (not top 10%). Based on the fact that top schools tout that the vast majority of their accepted applicants rank in the top 10%, or in some cases top 5%, the OP has a legitimate concern about his/her ranking being perceived as “low.”</p>

17

<p>The admissions folks are no doubt familiar with how this situation can happen, but your letter confirms that your second decile rank has to do with weighting weirdness rather than some mysterious failing on your part. I hope your high school addresses this at some point, though once you go down the weighting path, there will be inconsistencies.</p>

18

<p>So this whole weighting difference is based on getting an honors boost from jazz classes and Spanish classes? Seems a bit much for Stanford to give much credence to your requrest to jump 36 spaces in the queue based on classes like those.</p>

<p>My recollection of the Stanford School Report is that it asks the GCs to provide rank and GPA info–preferably from grades 10-12 and academic subjects only. I think you would have a better chance in influencing the admissions committee if these “abnormalities” had been in more academic classes.</p>

19

<p>I think the letter is good.</p>

<p>I like the initiative you showed in addressing the problem in a most thorough manner and in getting the relevant adults on board. I am particularly impressed that you were able to get cooperation from the registrar. My expectation would have been that registrars would not be inclined to recalculate data or otherwise help in bringing class rank into question. I think your managerial/people skills look very good in this matter.</p>

<p>I like how the letter gave you a chance to emphasize again how accomplished the jazz and Spanish students really are. Finally, I like how you mentioned that the system is new this year, and that jazz is in fact an extra class.</p>

<p>A GC letter could have mentioned your issue, but I question whether most GCs would take the time to recalculate the GPA, or to present the intimate understanding of the situation that you did. GCs typically have many students to worry about. It would seem that only you have the time and interest to delve deeply into the effect of this issue on you. And, after all, your GC did sign the letter.</p>

<p>I found the tone of the letter professional and appropriate. I probably would have left out the passage about your APs, since that issue is beyond the scope of the problem you are addressing in the letter.</p>

<p>I would not accept the precise rank of 3 as gospel truth, because, as californian suggested, I would wonder if there might be others in Spanish and/or Jazz Ensemble, currently ahead of you, who would also benefit from the change you calculated and therefore perhaps remain ahead of you. </p>

<p>I think you did well. If you are not admitted, you will at least be free of any nagging questions or doubts about whether Stanford truly understood your rank.</p>

20

<p>I was in a similar situation last year. I was ranked 8/400ish, behind kids who clearly unfairly “gamed” the system to get ahead. I talked with my guidance counselor about this, and she sent in a letter along with the School Report to all of the schools I applied to stating that it should have been much higher (1-2ish). I think it really helped in some of the schools I applied to, because no matter how much colleges talk about how they look at the overall package, a low rank with an otherwise solid package certainly raises some eyebrows. </p>

<p>I think the letter you sent in was fine - it WOULD have been bad had you sent it in yourself without GC/Principal input, since that would have looked like whining. But the fact that they supported you shows both honesty and maturity on the issue. </p>

<p>Lastly, try not to worry as I did last year. It turns out it was all for nothing since I was accepted to some of top (ivy) choices. Good luck!</p>