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Yeah, Norte Dame is a really great school. I really wished I would have extended my rankings as I really was stunned when I completed the rankings and Norte Dame was not included. Definately if my rankings was extended Norte Dame would have been the next private school on the list. All my rankings were carefully evaulated and supported by statistics etc…</p>
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I actually have to go at the momement so I can provide the facts later. Though no personal views were included at all, if so then I would have ranked The University of Iowa for number one.</p>
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<p>It would be easier to take you seriously if you were not so distracted by common misspelling on the internet for multiple reasons. It would also be easier to take you seriously in the absence of such remarks. For that reason with time constraints I will not provide you the statistics, which you probably didn’t really care for from the start ( not suprised).</p>
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<p>Yes, it is interesting. However, the fact that it is a ratio does not eliminate positive and negative self-selection effects (such as geographic or religious preferences) on the admit rate. As calculated above, it uses the raw admit rate alone to indicate selectivity. US News does not rely on AR alone but adjusts for both test scores and grades. So it would be interesting to compare a YAAS (Yield-over-Adjusted-Admissions Selectivity) to the YAR (Yield-over-Admit-Rate).</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html</a></p>
<p>Mortimer, Georgetown and Notre Dame are identical in terms of quality, reputation and excellence. Just because the USNWR ranks one of them 5 spots above the other does not make it better. Most years, Penn is ranked 4 or 5 spots higher than Columbia and WUSTL is ranked 4 spots higher than Brown. Does that make Penn better than Columbia or WUSTL better than Brown?</p>
<p>Don’t know about US News history, but when I was applying to schools, which predated Us News, Georgetown’s academic reputation far exceeded Notre Dame’s. </p>
<p>The guide book I used for college selection showed Georgetown admitted 41%, average SAt 1246. While Notre Dame accepted 68%, average SATs of 1187. These were big differences, at the time. Academic reputations are developed over long periods of time, and usually change slowly. What do the peer assessments show?</p>
<p>monydad, Georgetown’s PA is 4.0, Notre Dame’s is 3.8. That’s roughly the same. And they are similar in terms of selectivity. Both have mid 50% SAT ranges that hover around 1300-1500. Georgetown’s acceptance rate is 19% and Notre Dame’s is 27%, so again, no difference there. Overall, they are identical in most measurable ways. Notre Dame’s main advantage over Georgetown is endowment and Georgetown’s main advantage over Notre Dame is location.</p>
<p>“Huh? What does that have to do with today?” </p>
<p>it doesn’t necessarily bear on today. However you were referencing historical Us News rankings, which also don’t bear on today. I’m just pointing out that reputational metrics existed before US News as well. Reputation can evolve over a long period of time, and IMO there could be a residual effect from my day on peer assessments. The people who applied when I did are today’s full professors at many schools, and impressions may be partly formed at an early stage.</p>
<p>You were asking why people tend to put Georgetown over Notre Dame, I was conjecturing that this older longstanding historical relationship may be a contributor towards this result . Maybe not.</p>
<p>Mortimer, Notre Dame is not the preeminent Catholic university in the nation. You would have to be in denial to believe that. Georgetown is weak in the Sciences and that is one domain where Notre Dame does have an advantage, although Notre Dame is not that good in the Sciences either. But in the Humanities, Social Sciences etc…, Georgetown and Notre Dame are on par with one another. Both have very strong undergraduate Business programs and Georgetown also has a very strong undergraduate International Relations program.</p>
<p>Again Mortimer, I am not sure how you figure that Georgetown is either a “safety” school or anybody’s second choice. High school seniors interested in Law and Politics almost always have Georgetown high on their list. And a school that is ranked 12th most selective in the nation is not a safety for anyone.</p>
<p>Mortimer, I think that a very significant chunk of students who apply to Notre Dame and end up attending are students who grew up “Irish” fans. In that regard, I agree with you that Notre Dame is a first choice (indeed, the only choice for some) to many applicants. </p>
<p>As far as attracting a higher caliber of student, I don’t think that’s the case. Students who enroll into Georgetown and Notre Dame are statistically identical.</p>
<p>Not really Mortimer. Georgetown reports ACT scores of 100% of its applicants who submit them. Notre Dame only reports ACT scores of select applicants, not all of those who submit them.</p>
<p>As for SAT averages, according to the USNWR, Georgetown’s mid 50% is 1310-1490 and Notre Dame’s is 1320-1500. That’s a 10-point difference.</p>
<p>[U-CAN:</a> Georgetown University](<a href=“ucan-network.org”>ucan-network.org)
[U-CAN:</a> University of Notre Dame](<a href=“ucan-network.org”>ucan-network.org)</p>
<p>Not much difference.</p>
<p>[Georgetown</a> University- Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://uadmissions.georgetown.edu/applying_firstyear_sdprofile.cfm]Georgetown”>http://uadmissions.georgetown.edu/applying_firstyear_sdprofile.cfm)</p>
<p>Though, Georgetown’s four undergraduate colleges have different standards as is apparent in the link above.</p>
<p>“well, that I will agree with, which supports my belief that Gtown is living off of past reputation a bit and a perception from an eastern media bias that its somehow a better school,”</p>
<p>Nothing I posted could reasonably be held to support any belief regarding eastern media bias.
And I posted information regarding past reputation, it can only be considered “living off it” if current reputation does not follow suit. Based on Alexandre’s posts I would not say it is living off it, where he sees parity I see mostly advantage Georgetown. Though clearly Notre Dame has made amazing strides over the years, almost as big a change as Penn, Columbia, Wash U and NYU.</p>
<p>Alexandre, will you admit that Duke and Stanford students are statistically equal as well?</p>
<p>Stanford mid 50% SAT: 1340-1540
Duke mid 50% SAT: 1340-1530</p>
<p>Stanford mid 50% ACT: 30-34
Duke mid 50% ACT: 30-34</p>
<p>lesdiablesbleus, I agree, as are WUSTL students. Which is why I personally do not believe that student statistics determine institutitonal quality. Stanford is superior to Duke and Duke to WUSTL.</p>
<p>For Americans, Notre Dame has a much larger national brand/image than Georgetown. People can argue about the legitimacy or educational relevance of this or scoff at the football history of ND that played a large role in developing the school’s national brand, but I don’t think it’s even close. While Georgetown is the USA’s oldest Catholic university, its national profile materially lags that of transcendent Notre Dame. </p>
<p>Having said the above, I would consider Georgetown and Notre Dame to be peers within higher education. Both attract excellent, well-grounded students who get a superb education from institutions that are dedicated to their undergraduate students. Both are peers to the non-HYP Ivy group of colleges and IMO belong on any Top 20 undergraduate college list, with or without the Ivies.</p>
<p>But THAT national brand is all about sports, not academics. People are capable of distinguishing between the two, IMO. I don’t think most people would say “KU has a really great basketball team, so I should study physics there instead of U Chicago”.</p>
<p>mony,
I agree that in the media world, there is an overemphasis on the school’s football history. IMO, this reflects a lack of understanding on the part of the media which by and large ignores the school’s excellent academic reputation. But I can assure you that perspective is not shared in many parts of the USA, particularly in the Midwest in general and certainly around Chicago. They know ND first-hand and see the high quality of its graduates. By contrast, Georgetown is barely a blip in that region. </p>
<p>Move around the country and the ND brand is clearly benefited by its athletics heritage, but most folks who know anything about the school recognize the quality and most would see it as the nation’s pre-eminent Catholic university.</p>
<p>Hawkette, in Michigan, Georgetown’s reputation matches Notre Dame’s.</p>