<p>how important would the ranking of the school for chemistry be if child wants to major in chemistry with thoughts of grad school or md/phd path? (understand most rankings by subject are grad school rankings so difficult to apply to undergrad but…)</p>
<p>trying to put all the facts together to compare 2 schools that are at top of son’s list. the school ranked much higher (top 20 for chem) would leave significant money to pay out, the one ranked in the 100-200 range would be free thanks to merit aid.</p>
<p>As professional degree parents, we’ve talked some about this question with our own kids, one who is chemistry and the other math inclined.</p>
<p>We do think teaching institutions with long standing but dynamic up to date departments who have penned many a discovery (even a few stellar ones) and with frequent writers on major peer-reviewed publications, offer a caliber of teaching from which a future mathematician or chemist will greatly benefit. Yes, that most likely means working through the TA taught classes (graduate students themselves often who should teach as masters of material) while on the trajectory toward the professorial taught and run classes and labs. Our kids and we speak of graduating from college having produced a small amount of material related to their major as well as mastered the practical requirements, materials which are both translatable to a current and future work force need as well as reputed highly enough to offer acceptances for further graduate education. Real work production while at the undergraduate level, not just theoretical academics is our mantra. Such should mean involving themselves with a PI’s research at their undergraduate institution, as well as applying for internships at both private and public institutions and working their during undergraduate years, notably summers. A renown college faculty stands to encourage and facilitate these tasks.</p>
<p>In our house we tend to emphasize pragmatism over theory in learning: get in and get your hands wet as soon as possible on the subject matter to master it, although theorists are held in high regard should one’s aptitude reveal this unique strength. Tailoring one’s college selection to these considerations may help in their decision making process.</p>
<p>Hope this helps. If you might pm me your list of top chem schools, I haven’t seen that as yet, although I have for math. Good luck, it’s a great question to think about. Aren’t our kids fortunate to have such wonderful options for their future? This is a great time in America in higher education.</p>
<p>My hubby is involved in admissions for a top 10 grad program in chemisty. When admitting students they at GPA, GRE scores, research experience and letters of recommendation. If those things are all good, it won’t matter much where they went to school. They accept students from all kinds of schools - small private LACs, major state universities, lesser known state universities, private universities and foreign schools. The most important thing is to make sure that your child will have the opportunity to do research as an undergrad, either during the regular school year or in the summers. If there are good research opportunities at both schools, don’t worry about the rankings.</p>
<p>one of the schools is actually offering 2 research programs that he was selected for. so he will have double opportunities. one program also provides a paid phd, the other program will pay him a stipend for 4 years as a chemistry TA (training in the first year…ta for the last 3 years) [this is the “lower” ranked school for chem] but this school is ranked 16th for nih funding for medical research, which is the field son wants to go into. taking your comments above, the financial side and research opportunities helps very much</p>
<p>Great article idad. But I would add that while I think it makes a great case for the fact that either type of school can work as a route to graduate school, it doesn’t demonstrate LACs provide a better training ground. </p>
<p>The results can be as readily attributable to initial student body differences as to educational process differences. The outcome data can as easily be attributed to the fact that the type of student on average that opts for an LAC is also the type of student more suited and likely to go into academics. </p>
<p>Same problem we have whenever we look at this kind of data (even though I love such data and use it myself). Not the author’s fault-- he’s a chemistry researcher, not a social scientist.</p>
<p>If your student needs to have a job to finance school, I’m all for it (its a great job and it sure beats working at the fast food outlet on campus; moreover, you can a learn a lot more deeply about something by teaching it to others). But in terms of graduate school goals, TA work would just take away time from studies or research or other cool campus opportunities, and it would not help with a grad school application. You will get into graduate school based on your research experience, not your TA experience (same when it comes to post-docs and professor appointments). TAing is not a status thing, it’s cheap exploitative labor thing (don’t let them trick you into seeing it differently). When applying to graduate programs keep this in mind too: not all financing for graduate school is equal across schools. You want your graduate student to be given a stipend that is not heavily based on TA work (which can be very consuming and do nothing for one’s research record, future post-docs and employment, or a quick exist from graduate school). </p>
<p>The currency in academia is research and publications.That is not a personal value judgment, and I’m not saying teaching is not valuable or enjoyable (I love it), but the fact is what gets rewarded is research.</p>
<p>thanks for those insights starbright… we recognized that the promise of the paid phd wasnt as “big” as it sounds as a good science grad student should not have difficulty having the phd covered (we viewed it like a safety school concept LOL) but hadnt looked at the ta role in the same way as you have described. my son’s favorite ec has always been tutoring…he actually started that in middle school and sustained it throughout hs, so he is looking at the ta role as a positive thing. as the school costs are covered by his merit scholarship, the stipend would be just be extra money not necessary to finance his schooling. both of these programs are under the honors programs of the school and the big draw for my son applying to them was the undergrad research opportunities that begin in freshman year… so hopefully that will really help grad school apps as you and others have said.</p>
<p>Aren’t most Phd’s getting free tuition and a stipend doing SOMETHING for the money? Pretty sure most of that is teaching assistants. Based on the above post, it sounds like youre assuming your kid is just so darn special that he deserves a free ride in life? :)</p>
<p>Many schools do not require TA work. One is supposed to be focusing on one’s research. Even back in the day, I had a fellowship with no teaching or other “assistant” requirements.</p>
<p>modadunn, no i dont think my kid is so special he DESERVES a free ride…he has been GIVEN one by a school. (we are talking about undergrad he is not a grad student already) what i was trying to determine was… he has narrowed his choices down to 2 schools right now. One is ranked higher in chemistry than the other. and i wanted to know if the rank of a school for a particular major was important when later applying for grad school.<br>
the “lower ranked school” has 2 opportunities … research experience/exposure from freshman year and ta. The TA experience we are discussing is UNDERGRAD TA not grad ta. (he has always expected that as a grad student he might have to ta) this program trains him to be a TA as an UNDERGRAD student.
the higher ranked school also has a research program but will leave about 100K for the 4 years of undergrad education after merit. </p>
<p>i was trying to determine whether taking the offers of the free school (based on merit) would in anyway be detrimental to his applications to grad school later. ie do grad schools consider the rank of a school in a particular major. ie is a difference in ranking worth 100K</p>