She said she started doing it because it was so hot during the day. She also said she was embarrassed to report the rape because of details such as this.
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It’s quite sad and I hope whoever is caught.
I don’t understand the behavior right after I admit - but I’m not female. I would think to call the police and capture whatever evidence - but that’s something many of us wouldn’t understand, not being female or having experienced this sort of trauma.
Is it normal, then for a person, to go to the press with this info? I read why she said she did it so I understand her reasoning.
I’m not asking to be attacked. I’m asking for discussion purposes - so we can all learn and understand (which is mostly what I’ve done through the thread).
I will admit, it does create some “attention getting” or doubt in my mind and I would say the same if a male claimed they were attacked, especially given her current desires. I don’t know if she’s a leading candidate or not (I’m guessing not because most would have a volunteer team for sign issues) etc. and yes, any sexual assault would far override a congressional position from a trauma POV.
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This makes me think of something. Matthew Ingalls was fired from his job after the Jane
Doe case went public. He was found responsible for sexual assault and expelled from Cornell. Would this have come up in a background check, or are those proceedings kept private? Wondering whether his employer didn’t do a background check, whether they did and it didn’t come up, or whether they knew and ignored it until it became public. Wouldn’t the expulsion at least have showed up in a background check even if not the reasons for it? I would absolutely expect my company to not hire someone found responsible for sexual assault - assuming they knew about it.
Apparently this hasn’t sunk in yet even though it has been said a number of times already: Consenting to one or two or whatever sexual encounters does not mean you consent to everything that follows. That is exactly one of the things raised in the lawsuit.
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It’s very much sunk in - but what hasn’t sunk in to others is that - she has filed a civil case and made accusations.
Then there will be a defense of the case. We will hear/learn of many things that she likely wouldn’t want us to hear.
Just because someone says it, doesn’t make it true.
The worst (for justice) is if claims made are truthful, but the legal process doesn’t assess guilt. That’s unfair to any victim.
But it was mentioned upthread by several (I assume males) - the thread and much of the public has found those accused guilty - when there hasn’t been any evidence within a court of law. Things like the Letitia James comment someone posted above certainly foreshadow that as do some of the publications out there.
Please remember that as you continue to attack others for being insensitive, etc.
I feel the difference is - some 100% believe alleged victims and I certainly would like to.
But I also believe all are entitled to their day in court if accused, and I want to believe them too.
So I don’t want to - take a formal stand - if you will.
I just hope our justice system works - which to me, shouldn’t have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because sometimes that’s too high a burden for the obvious (like something is on video but they can’t use it) - well, duh they obviously did it, type of thing.
I’m sure we will, because dragging up sexual history is always used as a defense even though it should not be relevant to a case. Because defense will likely try use the “she consented to this, so…” argument as well. I’m not naive.
Not sure why you think people don’t understand what a civil suit is.
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A friend was raped in college. She and her BF got into an argument while driving on a highway in a large city. He hit her several times and kicked her out of his car. She was on the side of the road late at night, hurt, with no way to get help (no cell phones in the 1970’s). Someone stopped and offered her a ride to a phone. She honestly doesn’t remember if she accepted a ride or was forced into the car. The driver raped her, beat her, and left her for dead on the side of the road. Somehow, her rapist was caught, and she pressed charges. During the trial, her sexual history was brought up. The fact that she had previously had sex with anyone was apparently an open invitation for all men to have sex with her. Believe me, this incident never left me (or her - she became very accomplished in the martial arts and self defense).
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As a psychologist, I can tell you that psychosis does not mean that someone has a split brain; nor does schizophrenia. And a mood disorder is not normally a form of psychosis.
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Jane Doe to one of the people she would later accuse of rape: 
[1]
“ps. i’m not sure if u remember but i did ket off your d*** at some point
and i honestly think that was one of the most insane/jaw dropping moments of the night.”
Jonathan – a defendant in Jane Doe’s lawsuit – responds … "I have no memory of that last part
”
She replies, “insane truly.”
In the same text exchange, Jane Doe seemed to defend what she called “the gangbang,” saying, “i don’t think we should feel any shame for the part. our body our choice asf.”
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Regardless of what an SA victim was doing, what she was wearing, whether she was intoxicated, etc. the blame and legal responsibility clearly lies on the perpetrators, because it’s not like they were forced to commit these acts. Rape is a deliberate act, after all, not to mention a criminal one. I’m dismayed to see that that’s not obvious to everyone.
I’m also dismayed that the mention of some (understandably much smaller percent, but non zero nonetheless) victims being male was quickly dismissed as a non issue because their attackers were mostly male. This isn’t to take anything away from the women affected, but I’m probably more sensitive to this because a male family member was sexually assaulted as a teen and I’ve seen the decades long psychological impact of the assault.
I wish we could all agree that SA is a terrible crime, regardless of the gender of the victim or the perpetrator, and that it’s not the victim’s fault.
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Those texts are truly troublesome to absorb.
Now it seems it is claimed she was trying to collect evidence via these texts. How do the jury will view this, it is quite questionable.
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Has anyone not said/agreed with this ?
I hope that’s not my post you were referring to - if so you either misinterpreted or I worded it badly. I think this is likely an even a bigger problem than reported as it probably carries an even bigger sense of “shame” wrt reporting - though no one at all who has been raped should feel shame, some social environments engender that. There really isn’t much info that I’ve seen (on the campus angle) beyond the % reports. I did see (I think it was in the Dartmouth article in the context of hazing?) that some male-on-male SA happens in frats but it was mentioned almost in passing in the article, it’s not clear if frat life is as prevalent in the incidents as it is with women being raped.
There seems to be a mountain of text and phone call transcript evidence, between doe and the accused, between doe and her friends (including the frat member who sent her the infamous screenshot), between the frat members doing “damage control” (that was a news headline not my characterization) etc with quite different angles coming out depending which bit is quoted. Will indeed be interesting to see how a jury deals with the mountain of it and what the ultimate assessment is.
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Indeed.
Problem is that some cases are clear SA, while some cases are kind of very murky (too much hearsay vs hard evidences)
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This is correct (per another psychologist/neuropsychologist). Psychosis (persons with schizophrenia can have episodes of psychosis, but actually so can some severe mood disorders) is a thought disorder. Psychopathy is a personality disorder. They are very different. And a “split brain” phenomenon is a term sometimes used and limited to discussions of what happens when one’s corpus callosum is damaged or severed.
ETA: calling @MaineLonghorn if she cares to comment about some common misunderstandings of schizophrenia.
Ooh meant to add— One of our very own cc’ers was interviewed last night on the Cornell case by Jake Tapper on CNN. Hoping she will pop in
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I was focused on men being SA’d by women (given the topic of the thread and what I wrote) but, yes, men being SA’d by men is I’m sure not nearly as uncommon. So, sure, men being SA’d by someone certainly happens. My reference to 99.999% was just colloquial and not meant as an authoritative statistical citation or a call for a data search. But I will remember to make that abundantly clear next time.
Yes, people with schizophrenia (“schizophrenics” is not really used anymore) are not psychopaths. They are actually much, much more likely to be the victims of violence rather than perpetrators.
My son with schizoaffective disorder (schizophrenia plus bipolar disorder) is very self-aware. He says it feels like he has one foot in reality and the other out - so maybe that’s why “split” is used sometimes? In the past, he has told me it takes all his will and strength to stay anchored in reality. When he was in the hospital one time, he was having trouble walking. When I asked why, he said he wasn’t sure if the ground was real or not. He has also heard voices. In his case, they tell funny jokes, and that’s why he used to laugh to himself fairly often. These items I’ve described are called “positive” symptoms, meaning behaviors that were ADDED due to the illness. “Negative” symptoms are things that have been taken away, such as motivation, enthusiasm, stamina, etc. It also means he has a “blunt affect,” the inability to show or speak with much emotion.
Just yesterday, he told me he is so happy with the meds he’s taking because he really doesn’t have any “positive” symptoms now, just the negative ones. I told him I think he’s improving in that regard, also, because when he met someone at our house yesterday, he looked her in the eye, shook her hand, and smiled. I noticed, and realized HOW MUCH EFFORT that took him. But he did it.
Anosognosia is the last component of the illness that 50% of people have (my son does not). That’s the cognitive inability to understand that you have a mental illness.
And for people with schizophrenia who ARE violent, it’s almost impossible to get them help because they cannot be compelled to get help in most cases. That’s starting to change in some states, but it is a long haul.
I’m just a layman so I may not be stating everything totally correctly, but it’s my experience.
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Please know that I don’t think it’s unimportant. Of course it is. The subtopic was the discourse that often accompanies female SA that seems generally different than that which occurs in other contexts. So, for example, when a man is raped, we don’t tend to immediately ask what he was wearing, how he was acting, whether he was asking for it or, as was being discussed, that he needs to be more careful. It’s treated as what it is: a victim of a criminal act.
Thank you for sharing your son’s experiences with schizophrenia. His laughing at the jokes in his head reminds me of a patient whom I saw in hospital setting years ago. He was being interviewed by a small group of us and he was very funny although he didn’t always realize that he was or why. The joke among our little group was that he didn’t need a psychiatrist, he needed an agent.
I will just supplement your excellent description by saying that the reference to “split” comes from the literal meaning of the word “schizophrenia”, which literally means split mind. It refers to fragmentation, or the fact that the different functions of the mind are split from each other. It also refers to the fact that people with this disorder are often split off from reality.
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