Rate the importance of employability

marite · May 27, 2006, 8:20pm

Of course, people in the high tech field must be willing to change and put the effort into it. As must liberal arts majors.

The important point is that everyone needs to be flexible. Jobs will appear and disappear. When I was in college, the safe path for women was going to secretarial school. Since I began working, however, secretaries have been greatly reduced in numbers. We are all supposed to do our own typing (on computers), do our own photocopying, address our own envelopes, and get our own coffee. No more secretaries to do these tasks. But there are people in technical support, and English majors are employed in the documentation departments of high tech firms.

jmmom · May 27, 2006, 11:59pm

Well, on a 1-10 scale on how important employability is as an end result of a college education, I can tell you that my DH is an 11 with a bullet. Will anyone be surprised to know that he is an Engineer?

He encouraged DS to choose engineering, and I can tell you that I worried that S might make life-changing choices, consciously or unconsciously, to please Dad rather than to follow his own path. All because Dad was off the deep end on the employability meter. But, that being said, I don’t get the polarization on this thread. It seems like too many at the opposite ends of the scale feel a defensiveness and need to denigrate anyone at the opposite pole.

In our family, we were able to talk this all through. I’m probably a 6 on employability. I think a 22 year old should be self-supporting or on a direct path to self-support (grad school, “starving artist” working to get established…), rather than back in his old bedroom finding himself. I chose Economics myself, back when we females were on the cusp of the movement to “have it all” because I wanted to position myself for a career in a non-traditional female field. Product of my environment and times.

But I also value a liberal arts education for its own sake and believe that the ability to think, write and communicate is the key to success in pretty much any career. I encouraged S to only consider schools where he could make a 90-degree turn from Engineering to 13th century poets, if he so chose. I encourage him to choose his non-Engineering/hard science courses to get that breadth of exposure to how other disciplines “think.”

Why do some assume that someone high on the employability scale ascribes zero value to the life of the mind; why do others assume that someone high on the “life of the mind” scale/education for its own sake thinks it’s fine for a 30-year old to be home eating Mom’s cooking and wearing her freshly laundered clothes?

Personally, I hope and pray that my S, who chose a high employability field will seek balance while in college and long after. I would similarly hope that, if he had chosen a major in Classics or the afore-mentioned 13th century poets, that he would have attended to the question of how that would work for him economically - ie, a career in academics, a career pursuing his intellectual passions no matter how poorly remunerated - but happy to support himself waiting tables, laying bricks, driving taxis or free-lancing/whatever.

As to choosing one college over another for employability (as opposed to choosing one major over another), pshaw.

marite · May 28, 2006, 12:03am

jmmom: Well said.

curmudgeon · May 28, 2006, 12:06am

I agree wholeheartedly. I think he should be home eating Mom’s cooking and wearing his own clothes, freshly laundered or not. ;)

Good job, jmmom.

marite · May 28, 2006, 12:17am

Curm:

LOL. I thought there was something awry with that sentence but was too caught up with its structure to notice the pronoun!

soozievt · May 28, 2006, 12:19am

My children didn’t choose colleges based on how much money they may potentially make. They chose colleges they WANTED to attend. They also have goals to eventually have careers.

My children didn’t choose majors based on how much money they could potentially make in those fields. They chose majors based on what they WANTED to focus on. They hope to go into their chosen fields.

How did my kids pick their college major (since it wasn’t based on potential income or employability)? Both did so quite differently.

D1 wasn’t sure what she wanted to do when she grew up. She knew what things she enjoyed and also was good at. Many subjects and fields are not yet studied in high school and so the exposure comes in college. She thought about her talents/skills and interests with an eye on a potential college major when starting jr. year of HS. She was looking into colleges and figured one criteria would be which colleges had the potential majors she was considering in case she truly went in that direction. She had narrowed it to engineering or architecture at the time. She visited some colleges in fall of junior yr. and visited both engineering and architecture departments and was drawn more to architecture. This is a kid with a wide variety of interests. But architecture is a multi-disciplinary subject and it combined both her interests and talents in history/cultures, computers, math, science, problem solving, and creativity. She decided to do a year long indep. study jr. year to delve into some architetural skills. Also, when she had to write papers for some classes in HS, she chose some architectural topics. She chose to write several architects in our town and ask to do a summer internship so she could explore what the field was like. Still, architecture is not a subject she could say she had studied for years and knew for certain she wanted to major in and make her career. She opted to not apply to five year BArch programs. She was not 100% ready to commit which is what applying directly to such programs involves, but she also did not want a large percentage of her coursework to be in just one subject as she still wanted to learn about many things (liberal arts). She chose to enter a BA school that has a major in architectural studies and then if she majored in it, she’d go onto a MArch degree program for grad school. Indeed, she loves it and is majoring in it and planning on grad school. She’s done quite a bit to explore this field so far and now “knows” what she wants to do. College can be the time to discover that. For her, she began discovering/exploring a potential career field in HS but firmed it up once she studied it in college.

My other D, has KNOWN what she has wanted to do since nursery school. Even her narrative report card from nursery school mentions her going to Broadway some day. She immersed herself in this area of passion from a very young age and it grew more intense over the years. It became a part of who she is. She could never NOT go into musical theater. There was no discussion of what her college major would be. Her field is, as she puts it, “an inextricable part of my being…or my raison d’etre.” So, she applied to BFA programs in musical theater which involves a commitment before applying and enrolling. It is a terminal degree for her field. She certainly did not choose this career around how much she could earn or the employability. But she chose a college that offered a very good program in her field and what happens after that, we’ll see.

But the discussion with my kids was always centered on discovering what they wanted to study and what career they wanted to do. It was important that the college offer the field that interested them. Their chances at getting a job or their chances at a higher income were not tied to which college they picked. But they did pick out career aspirations and they did pick colleges that offered their areas of interests. Nothing about careers or money are guarantees. I think that they chose where they wished to attend, what they wished to focus on, and I am sure the rest will follow, including employment. How much they will earn was not relevant to the choice of college, nor the choice of major. That doesn’t mean that a lot of thought did not go into picking the colleges that fit them, nor that they were not encouraged to discover potential fields of interest or eventual careers. One went through a process to discover and explore that and the other just knew it in her bones. Anyone in our town who knows that one, doesn’t ask what she is majoring in…it was like a “given” and it is hard to imagine her not having gone to school for this and pursued a career of it. Money amounts were not part of the decision. I am 99.99999999999% sure that neither of my kids will move back home. They don’t even opt to spend their summers at home! My younger D most certainly will be starting out in NYC as that is the center of her career field and in fact, where she goes to college already. I’m not worried about my kids. One step at a time. Motivated types are sure to pursue goals and reach 'em.

jmmom · May 28, 2006, 12:29am

busted :p

overseas · May 28, 2006, 12:45am

Mine loves the jingle of coins in his pocket too much to ever move back home. But he also loves ideas whether musical, political or otherwise. He did choose the school where he is now out of some sense of knowing it was perfect for him. He has a touch of the dreamer. I believe the dreamer and not the lover of coins in the pocket played the deciding role in his choice.

curmudgeon · May 28, 2006, 12:55am

overseas , is their a touch of the romantic in that choice (of your S) that may not be in the more utilitarian choice? Do some value that romantic notion enough to eschew thoughts of future employability? Better a well -educated hobo who knows his own heart then a morally bankrupt Enron pencil pusher? (Yes, I do know that the world falls somewhere in between. I just really enjoy a little hyperbole now and again. )

overseas · May 28, 2006, 1:06am

I do think the choice was one of the heart, but, he is way too interested in money for my liking! :)

I should back up here…he takes on too many jobs for my liking. But I am proud of that as well I suppose.

TheDad · May 28, 2006, 1:46am

<going way=“” back=“”> MrsP, when I spoke about being hyperfocused on employability, I wasn’t referencing anything you said, it was my generalized reaction to what I’ve read on the board over the past 3+ years. </going>

I don’t think it’s necessarily an either/or thing, which is why I’m not wild about some of the framings of the argument here.

Otoh, I would have been perfectly happy if D had majored in Classics. Instead, she’s a double major with one useful major (Math) that I’m still bemused about her pursuing…no offense to anyone, but she’s not a typical Math geek…and as a once-upon-a-time Engineering major, I can say “These are my people.”

I’ll rephrase what I said earlier: I don’t think someone who has used college to cultivate general traits in a thoughtful way will have much of a problem finding a job. It’s the “leading an examined life” part of the process where some students stumble, going through college purely on inertia.

edad · May 28, 2006, 6:21am

I never thought of math as a field with good employment opportunities.

marite · May 28, 2006, 6:35am

edad:

applied math leads to good employment opportunities in actuarial work, investment banking, etc…

mootmom · May 28, 2006, 12:32pm

edad, math as a “field” may not be what I think of when I think of math as a discipline with “good employment opportunities”. It’s not just applied math and IBanking: math can be the foundation for careers in many areas of technology and scientific research. My H has advanced degrees in mathematics and is a Fellow (the highest technical level possible) at a large international company, making a very decent living and loving what he does. I’d be thrilled if my S#1 were to follow that sort of path.

timely · May 28, 2006, 7:08pm

I think that a degree is a luxury degree if the student has no intention of using the knowledge gained in that degree to make a living. There is nothing inherently wrong with a luxury degree. It’s kind of like a luxury vacation - you go because you think you will enjoy it and benefit from it.

Even a student with a “luxury degree” will be more employable than a student with no degree, of course. In fact, as has been mentioned here, the critical thinking and writing skills they gain in these degrees should result in many of these students being plenty employable.

If I as a parent am funding the education, I am going to consider cost vs. benefit. Paying for a college education is a huge sacrifice and is not one I am willing to make if I don’t think my child will come out of it able to support himself reasonably well. In other words, working at Starbucks won’t cut it.

(I have to throw in an aside here, though. A 23 y/o young woman I know did 2 years of culinary arts studies at a cc and worked at Starbucks part-time while going to school. After finishing school, she went to work full-time at Starbucks as a shift supervisor, then became asst. manager, and just recently got her own store to manage. She makes 40k per year on that 2 years of cc, and (being the bossy type) she’s very happy running the store. Now that’s cost vs. benefit!)

Okay, now for full disclosure. S #1 is majoring in International Studies with a focus on politics and diplomacy, an area of focus of N. Africa and the Middle East, and French for his language study. I believe this is a fairly worthless UG degree. However, he will be entering the Air Force upon graduation (he’s on ROTC scholarship) and hopes to make a career of it. So, I think it’s good to have officers in the military who have an understanding of N. Africa and the Middle East. Maybe he’ll never even go there in his military career. Who knows? Nevertheless, he is learning to read critically, to write, and to think. Even if something happened to prevent his serving in the military (an injury, for example), I believe he would end up well-employed in a probably unrelated field. He is not a scholar as some your kids are (he’s taking mythology for his humanities elective next semester because it’s an easy “A” <sigh>), but he is very disciplined and hard-working. Also, he’s just very personable. People like him. When you add that to any kind of education, I think you’ll do fine.</sigh>

S #2 is also quite personable (clearly the boys get this from me!). His passion is filmmaking, and he hopes to study film production in college. Talk about a luxury degree…film production!! Nevertheless, it seems that this is what he was designed to do. We (S, dh, and I) will consider the option of having him double-major in business, but we’ll have to wait until closer to time to make that decision (he’s a rising junior). With a filmmaking degree and his personality, I can see our son as a producer of some kind, working for a talent agency, or in some other related career. He sees himself as the next Stephen Spielberg.

So, I guess I have just talked in circles by saying that some degrees are luxury degrees, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use them to get a job! :-)

marite · May 28, 2006, 8:15pm

Timely:

If your son becomes a career military man, I believe in order to advance as an officer, he will need to get a Master’s in an area study. So his UG focus in North Africa and the Middle East will stand him in good stead.
As for film production, film studies are rising in popularity these days, no doubt because the entertainment industry has become such an important part of our economy. Your S#2 seems to me highly employable.

blossom · May 28, 2006, 8:59pm

Timely, I work in corporate HR and disagree with you 100%. The only luxury degrees I see are ones that are so highly specialized that they verge on being useless. I see young people with Masters degrees in Real Estate who have to spend 20 minutes during a job interview explaining why they spent the same time and money as someone with an MBA only to end up with something that they thought would pay high dividends (after all, Donald Trump is in real estate, right?) and turned out to be useless…'cause they hate working in real estate. I see kids with BA’s in Sports Management who can’t write a coherent paragraph… and middle aged adults with a whole range of Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in something they thought would pay off big time and instead has made them frustrated, underemployed, and wondering why.

These are luxury degrees. A wise investment for one’s education is learning how to read critically, write coherently and with some pizazz, use numbers appropriately (i.e. in a highly analytical, rigorous fashion if one is numerically inclined; in a less analytical but utilitarian way if one is not), and so forth. Give me ten anthropology majors for each communications major… I can put the anthropology kids to work tomorrow in PR or Editorial or Investor Relations… but finding one communications major who actually knows how to communicate is usually quite a challenge.

northeastmom · May 28, 2006, 9:55pm

Blossom, That is what scares me! I have a fourteen year old who likes theatre, creative writing, video production and other areas that fall under the communications heading. I hope that when the time comes, he will choose some other area of focus.

shagpin · May 28, 2006, 10:34pm

First here is my background:

Ever since I was little my passion was History. I still remember the silences that ensuend when my 2nd grade teacher asked us what we wanted to do and I said “Archeaologist!”.

However in my Senior of HS that all changed. I had managed to get on a poltical campaign and since then have become addicted to campaigning an politcs in general. I was by far the youngest worker on that campaign. Most of the people were either college seniors or college grads. About half of the college grads had a masters, even one with a degree from London School of Economics. However, all were getting paid $8.95 an hour, the same as me.

As a result of that campaign I have been extremly motivated to get internships and as college freshman I have been able to put together quite a good resume. I have also made great contacts in my chosen industry and would count my employability as very high. However, my major(History) and college(medicore state university) would state otherwise. In other words, I think getting work expeirence and having a high GPA is more important than the major, and could be more impartant the school that you go to.

As far as choosing majors, I would hope that I will encourage my kids to major in what they want in. College is probably the last time for most of us to learn things in an intelectual enviroment. However, I would also make sure that my kids go into their major with their eyes wide open and realize that they may need to do something outside of school in order to get a good job or do something in field that they are interested in.

barrons · May 28, 2006, 10:37pm

I know a lot of people with an MS in Real Estate and the drop rate from the profession is tiny despite the ups and downs in the market. So far none of the jobs have been moved to India. Most people that went into it already had some exposure through family or work and did not do it because of Trump… They just enjoyed helping create something of value that will be there in 50 years to show the grandkids. I still can’t think of anything else I’d rather be doing.

Rate the importance of employability

Related topics

CONNECT WITH US