@jym626, @PizzaWhatever will be posting those same arguments over and over…just wait.
Again, having an Ivy League graduate degree is certainly not the sole measure of success, so your post about “their degree from Wharton” and “Big Name law school” is off-topic.
They aren’t competing with me or my spouse.
They have cousins who have already been arrested, had illegitimate kids before 20 years old, and the chance of them going to college is zero. Zilch. They’ll be significantly affected by the “15” movement, because they can’t hold down jobs and if they move from job to job with no pertinent experience, they’ll be getting what a starting lab tech would get with a two or four year degree.
My minimum requirements for my kids:
I agree with the point about “success” vs. “perceived success based on attending top colleges”. It can be just as heartbreaking - for some - to have not gone to college, to have worked hard to build a business from the ground floor, and to have the means to make sure your kids are well-educated and have opportunities you didn’t, and they decide they need to go “find themselves” for a few years and then “maybe” they’ll go to college.
Will we have a bit of “oh well” if none of our kids goes to an Ivy? Maybe. But the “second tier” school my son is attending is the same that several extremely successful and honestly amazing people have attended.
You could turn this argument into “I married well - someone richer than me, someone better looking than me - what if my kids don’t marry well?” etc. etc. etc.
As for the kid raking leaves part-time, one guy I knew in HS got a perfect 1600 on his SATs and went to Princeton, and had a nervous breakdown. He died last year in his 40s, after Princeton he transferred to an ag school, and then he never could hold down a job. He was known for being a literacy volunteer, not much else.
The problem with the “raking leaves part-time” story is that we don’t have context - most parents would support a 21 - 25 year old trying to find themselves, but few would “fully support” a 35 year old without health issues of some sort, possibly mental illness. And when I say that, I mean the child’s or the parents’ mental or physical health…
If my parents were very well-off, would I laze around their house and not work that much? Yeah, maybe, sounds like a sweet life!
Happyalumnus,
You seem to be trying to lure pizzagirl into your thread. She isn’t here. Let it go.
And my reference to Wharton and other top schools is exactly ON topic, since you seem to want posters to be bothered by the fact that the parents went to top schools (you mentioned some, I mentioned others) and the kids are somehow failures because they didn’t follow in these footsteps. Yes I am exaggerating a bit, but to make a point. If the parents went to top schools 30+ year ago. Good for them. But the kids have taken different paths. So be it.
I agree with @Oldfort we focus our kids on effort over results. If they are making a solid effort, I am proud of the no matter where they end up. What more can a parent ask?
High achieving parents also need to keep in mind that top schools are significantly more difficult to get into today, and most of them would not get in today.
I’m not going to lie, repeatedly tagging someone who isn’t involved in a thread is kinda creepy stalkerish to me.
Our family, on my husband’s and my sides, has a lot of education. My grandfather got his master’s degree back in 1917. My grandmother was the only one of 11 kids to go to school, and she even attended grad school at UT in the late '20s. My husband’s grandfather, and both his parents, were MDs. My dad has his PhD and has been a professor at UT for exactly 50 years. My husband and I both have our master’s degrees in structural engineering.
Our kids:
Child #1, 22, has schizophrenia and is living in a group home. He dropped out of college for the third time this semester. I think he has a decent chance of eventually getting a degree in applied math from our small local school, but who knows?
Chilrd #2, 20, has bipolar disorder and is in his second gap year. He’s actually doing well - no meds and hopes to go to school at the American University in Beirut to learn how to teach English in the Middle East.
Child #3, 17, is struggling after having to deal with her older brother’s collapse while we were away on vacation. She is seeing a therapist and struggling in school.
At this point, it looks as if NONE of my parent’s six grandkids will graduate from UT-Austin, because it’s so tough to get in (Child #1 did go there one year before he got too ill).
So how do I deal with it? I know God has a plan for my kids. They’re all remarkable people and my hope for them is that they lead happy lives.
@jym626, Ivy or not, and law firm/bank or not is not relevant here. This thread is not going to go down that route.
@romanigypsyeyes What is amusing to me is that I am pretty sure that none of those tags are exactly the poster I think that they are referring to. Lol
I recently told my D that if college doesn’t work out she can always come live at home and become a yoga instructor. She thinks I was joking but I was dead serious. Happy and healthy is my new mantra.
The thread will go down whatever route the posters take it. But its completely puzzling that you try to redirect that over and over when YOU are the one who brought up the top schools (Vandy, Yale, Cornell, Columbia) in your OP. Of course its “relevant” because you made it relevant, but then told readers not to talk about them. You’ve tried to signal pizzagirl several times by using the @ symbol with her name (I think you got it right once). Why are you baiting her? And why throw out elite names and say “nevermind, dont talk about top schools”.
OK, don’t think about the word hippopotamus. Don’t think about it…
^My very best to you and your family,ml.
Further perspective: Recently I saw a picture on FB of friends of mine (both with advanced degrees from Ivy league schools),at their child’s graduation. I have no idea what school he even attended, but due to some poor choices the young person made a few years ago which derailed college (and almost derailed his life). I was thrilled to see that he has graduated. I am guessing his parents are, too.
You’ve got us all thinking about effort, @oldfort. Thank you. That’s an important part of this conversation.
A question for you and others who put a high value on effort: Some people have the goal of achieving an adequate standard of living without having to work extremely long hours. If a person is able to do this, either by finding a way of earning a living that doesn’t require long hours or by being satisfied with a modest lifestyle, do you consider it to be success or failure?
ML’s story is so compelling. They are doing everything right and everything they can for their 3 kids. Stuff happens. It stinks. But she and her DFH love and care for her kids, regardless of their struggles. But for another parent to be “disappointed” in their kids because “they didn’t achieve the same educational results”… blech. What kinda love is that?
My husband and I both know that we couldn’t possibly get into the colleges we attended now, and placed no pressure on our sons (the younger of whom was better qualified than either of us was) to apply. Only an abysmally ignorant parent wouldn’t understand that the admissions and cost scenarios now are vastly different from what they were a generation ago. I also have no argument with millennials who define success differently. Technology allows them to travel a lot lighter, and working to live rather than living to work is a perfectly reasonable life choice. Too many of their generation watched their hard-working parents lose jobs and sacrifice all enjoyment in life to sustain an unsustainable appearance of prosperity (ie. McMansion, luxury cars, etc.).
@jym626, there are many ways that someone can be successful, and many schools that are “elite”. Wall Street and large law firms are not the only paths to success, so please don’t imply that they are. There’s more to success than just Northeast “blue chip” employers and schools.
Don’t take this thread down that path, please.
@HappyAlumnus - Kindly enlighten the benighted readers regarding the path you intended to set us upon. I read the OP, and I don’t know how else most of us could have interpreted it.
I’m actually thinking about this in the context of my own (extended) family.
Two of my dad’s brothers with special :
-One is a highly successful high up of an international engineering firm. His wife is a partner in a law firm.
Child #1: Has a chromosomal abnormality and they were told he’d never walk, talk, and probably pass away fairly young. Next year, he’ll be moving out into a lightly assisted living house. He’s able to get around town and even hold a very, very low skill job. That is a huge success for them. They could’ve hoped for nothing better.
Child #2: Starting a PhD program this fall. They’re happy for her but they were just as happy when she wanted to be a counselor and work with families who have children with special needs. (Her PhD is going to be in something related to cognitive psych).
Child #3: A jock who is successful at school but more of a goof off. He is happy and they are happy.
-Another is a highly successful person in show business. His ex-wife (mother of his children) has multiple degrees and her mom used to be the head of the psych department at one of the UCs.
Child #1 has Cerebral Palsy and they celebrate every one of her accomplishments. Child #3 has non-verbal Autism and again, they celebrate every accomplishment. The other children are neurotypical but all too young for college.
Hippopotamus
You’ve got me scratching my head, HappyAlumnus. Your very opening post is all about the successes of your acquaintances ("I have a "friend " who… yeah right…) who have degrees from elite schools/professional schools and then list their offspring, many of whom have “only” gone to a top 100 school. The implication is that these aren’t good enough. Well of course , as you say, PG and many others would disagree with you. Just because they didn’t attend one of these schools or just because they don’t yet have their professional lives firmly footed that “they didn’t do as well as you did”?? (quoted from your OP). How many of us had out careers and lives firmly established when we were in our 20s?? Give these “friends” kids a chance. The poor kid raking leaves probably has other challenges. If not, and if he is just an entitled lazy bumb, his parents should show some tough love. Time to learn to be a grown up. But I strongly suspect that there is more to that person’s story, and I will cut them a great deal of slack.
I count my lucky stars that my kids are happy, generally healthy (well, on the mend), and very successfully launched. But one s went through layoffs and periods of unemployment. He didnt ask for help during those times but if he had we would have happily done so, as we know he was doing his best and pursuing his goals. As I said way back in post # 27, we support the EFFORT more than the outcome.
ETA-
Have our kids made some choices that we may not agree with? Sure. One s has a hobby that makes me a nervous wreck but he is very good at it. His choice. I can either listen to his pride in his success and quietly dig my nails into my chair or I can argue with him. Three guesses which I choose.
Other s rationalized something that was a bit of a high risk and now is healing from broken bones. I would not have chosen what he did, but its his life. Now, though, he’ll soon have a wife and inlaws to get on his case about that! My work there is done 
So do my s’s makes some choices I would have preferred they hadn’t ? Sure. But in the big picture, they are happy, successful and we have a great relationship. Who could ask for more?
Two of my good friends who are brilliant and successful married very pretty, non-intellectual wives. They produced attractive, happy under-performing children. Wasn’t there a study about intellectual capabilities coming from the mother? Anecdotally, I see it in these children. Luckily, their parents are proud of their kids and encouraged them to succeed in carers within their sales level. The D of one is in pharmaceutical sales and the S of the other is a real estate agent.