<p>We were considering buying a house owned by an attorney. The house is sixteen years old, one owner and very poorly maintained. We really like the street and thought that if we could get it for the right price we could make the repairs and updates.</p>
<p>Our first inkling that something might be really off was the fact that there were two story walls built around the property. They are nicely done and covered with ivy but very unusual for our area. Why would the seller spend tens of thousands of dollars on walls but have a dirt drive, stained carpet, ancient appliances, etc.? The agent told us that the owner did it for privacy. We learned from a mutual acquaintance that the seller installed the walls after he initiated a fistfight with the next door neighbor a few years ago.</p>
<p>We made an offer contingent on inspection, which was quickly accepted by the seller. He wanted us to buy the house “as is” but we insisted on the inspection clause. We had an inspection done a few days ago and were not surprised to discover, considering the visual condition of the house, that the seller blatantly lied on many items on the disclosure. We decided a price adjustment was needed. When confronted about the obvious roof problems and drainage issues, via our respective agents, he choose to attack our agent and to say “he was extremely offended” and not going to budge on price.</p>
<p>Based on some internet research I now realize that the disclosure is a great tool when honest people are buying and selling homes. But, when a person wants to deliberately mislead on a disclosure, it’s hard to prove fraud and the attorney expense may be as expensive as the repair.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure we will walk on this transaction. My question is, how do we make sure that the seller changes his disclosure to reveal the problems so that future potential buyers will be informed?</p>
<p>I dont think that you can “make sure” that he changes his disclosure from your aspect. But I wonder if your agent can intervene in this regard to assure that his agent (if he has one) makes sure that it is updated. Most states have some type of real estate board that may have answers for you and ways to “report” agent problems. But I am not sure if there is a way to do anything about an actual homeowner lying. If the homeowner’s agent knows the homeowner is lying, then there may be something that you can do/ report. </p>
<p>Also, did the homeowner actually lie, or is he oblivious to the needed repairs? Some people really cannot see what needs to be done to their home. Especially if they are elderly. But this holds true to some younger people too. </p>
<p>Sorry to all of the attorneys on this board that I really like and admire for the statement I am about to make. But honestly, I would be skeptical about purchasing from an attorney like that anyway. Even the “nice” ones know how to skirt the law and their responsibilities much better than I do. That is just my opinion. </p>
<p>But it sounds like kind of a cool property…too bad you could not work it out!</p>
<p>Just walk! I know you are trying to protect others. If you were working with an agent, ask them how this dishonestly can be addresses. But my suggestion is to just walk away after that.</p>
<p>Now that the seller’s agent knows about the problems (assuming s/he didn’t know before), I believe they are legally and ethically required to make sure they are disclosed to the next potential buyer. In your situation, it’s possible the seller’s agent didn’t know about them. Now they do.</p>
<p>I beg to differ on the disclosure part. The buyer has to do his/her due diligence and get his/her money’s worth out of the inspection, not rely on the seller to disclose every little thing (typical for a 16 year old house) that can be used to brow-beat the price down even more. If you have serious roof or drainage issues, are you going to worry even more about trivial things?</p>
<p>The agent’s position will be anything to close the sale, whether a buyer’s or a seller’s agent. If the buyers are willing to buy a property with serious issues, then the ‘smaller’ things should have little impact.</p>
<p>We designed and built a custom home in '93 and sold it in '00. 11 of the 12 items in the ‘inspection’ list were present the day we moved into the house and/or were trivial in nature. The 12th item we knew about (rotten siding in the process of replacement under warranty). What the inspection report failed to identify was not what was wrong, but what would go wrong in 2-3 years time but was perfectly fine at the time, or things that would pass inspection but were problems (memo to inspector: cute roof lines with lots of nooks and crannies are stupid in a house in the snow belt - ice dams, blah blah).</p>
<p>The inspector made a show of complaining loudly about an out-of-code fuse panel entry (the code had changed since we built the house) and other assorted visible ‘issues’ while completely ignoring the long term design and material risks because he was so clueless about what would likely go wrong…</p>
<p>In our area, agents can add notes about a property in the agent-only sections of the regional real estate database. If you want this crazy seller to “feel the pain”, ask your agent if this is something that can be done where you live.</p>
<p>What did he blatantly lie about? Are you saying that he stated something that was false or are you saying he lied by omission of not disclosing things you felt he should have disclosed?</p>
<p>There are lots of houses that have old appliances, dirt drives, stained carpet, a leaky roof, drainage issues, and other problems. A lot of these I wouldn’t even expect to be disclosed - such as the old appliances (obvious and they can still function), stained carpet, etc. </p>
<p>I view disclosures by the seller as something ‘nice to have’ but not something comprehensive and likely something biased in the seller’s favor as much as they think they can get away with so an inspection by a good inspector or very knowledgeable buyer is still always in order.</p>
<p>No question - from your description either inspect the house thoroughly and make an offer that accommodates what you find, or better yet, walk away from this one.</p>
<p>I don’t know what you can do to protect other buyers. Hopefully the other buyers will do what you did and inspect it and be aware of whatever the issues are.</p>
<p>I view the disclosure as being about things that would not otherwise be obvious to the buyer (old appliances are obvious). Our house had been foreclosed on and the previous owner unplugged the sump when he left. The house was empty, the basement acquired a foot of standing water, the finished basement was destroyed and much of the rest of the house was severely damaged. </p>
<p>We were told this, but the bank would not give us the photos which had been taken of the damage before their teams repainted everything and ripped out the basement finishing. That really ticked me off, as I felt we should know everything we could about the situation as it might influence repair decisions in the future. :(</p>
<p>Original poster here - There were specific questions on the disclosure that asked if there were any old or active roof leaks and if there were any drainage issues. There were water marks on the ceiling and evidence that the ceiling had been repaired and patched in other places. We didn’t notice the patches during our home tours because they were only visible from a certain angle and then became glaringly obvious. The seller checked “no” to the roof leak question.</p>
<p>The house is built on the side of a hill and raised so we were able to walk under the house and see what amounted to a dry creek bed under the house. In the basement/garage area we saw water stains and leaching on the concrete walls where the water ran into the house. Items were stored under the house and in the garage away from the stained areas. It doesn’t seem possible that the owner never noticed. The seller checked “no” to the drainage question on the disclosure.</p>
<p>We fully realize that a 16 year old house is not new and we did not quibble with many of the other numerous problems found during the inspection. I mentioned the carpet with dozens of pet stains, the dirt driveway filled with ruts, the old filthy appliances (some which did not operate and were also not disclosed) to illustrate evidence of the owner’s general lack of concern about maintenance. The street is one of the three nicest neighborhoods in town - home prices can easily go over $1,000,000.</p>
<p>For some reason, the seller was angry that our inspector noted the roof problems. He didn’t dispute the fact that there were drainage issues or our other major issue, that 2/3 of the windows had broken seals and/or inoperable. We offered to let him choose a roofer or contractor to take a look at the roof and we would be happy to consider the second opinion. The seller refused.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.</p>
<p>It’s unlikely that anyone investing in a property in that neighborhood would rely on a homeowners disclosure statement–I don’t know anyone who would buy a house of any value without a full and satisfactory inspection as a condition to closing. At worst, the owner will be wasting others’ time as they make offers, conduct inspections, and have deals fall through when he refuses to adjust the price. If he really wants to sell, he’ll soon realize he has to amend his disclosure or drop his price. He may even come crawling back to OP!</p>
<p>Real estate sales can vary greatly by state. Some states have mandatory disclosures but many that have disclosure requirements are voluntary. The best approach to buying real estate is to have a professional inspection and have the seller purchase a warranty if one is available. </p>
<p>I don’t think there is much you can do to protect the next buyer.</p>
<p>Anyone who relies on a disclosure, even a mandatory one, and makes a purchase without an inspection by a reputable company is a foolish purchaser, indeed. Even with an inspection, you are taking a chance with any purchase. If you read the disclaimers issued by even reputable inspectors, they cannot be held accountable for anything they may miss. Chances are good that if you had two different inspections done, you’d receive differences in the reports. Do your due diligence. View the property more than once before making an offer. Spend a good amount of time in the house looking carefully at everything and not just the cursory initial viewing that most people do. When the inspection is done, be there and go through everything in detail with the inspector. You’d be amazed how many buyers do not do this. I think the most important thing is to try to make a rational, informed decision and not an emotional one. It’s easy to get hooked on a house and want to go forward when your brain is probably telling you to slow down.</p>
<p>In my area the selling agent is legally required to disclose everything that’s known. The seller fills out a seller’s disclosure and the agent does a walkthrough and fills out a supplemental agent’s disclosure. My agent caught a couple of things I missed, such as a small crack in the glass of the front door, and disclosed it on his form. When the buyer came back and claimed it needed to be fixed because it wasn’t disclosed, he was told (nicely) to take a hike.</p>
<p>A house close to mine went on the market and initially didn’t have the nuisance next-door neighbors disclosed. The next-door neighbors made a point of contacting the listing agent and telling her that they’d been having a running battle with the sellers for years. The listing agent then had no choice but to disclose this to all buyers on the agent’s disclosure form.</p>
<p>Obviously these disclosures are not a substitute for professional inspections.</p>
It depends on the jurisdiction. Agents in our jurisdiction have an affirmative duty to disclose any known defects, and can be liable for triple damages if they do not. Sellers can also be liable, but less often for triple damages since they are not in business.</p>
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<p>Foreclosures are different animals entirely. There is generally no negotiation, often no inspection clause, no mortgage contingency. They are usually “take it or leave it” propositions.</p>
<p>ICK–sounds like that was a close call and a house you’re fortunate to be able to walk away from. Sometimes it’s best to look around and find a house that is better for you.</p>