<p>I attend Bx Science in New York and after reading up on some “chances” posts here, I’m not sure anymore whther applying is reasonable. I have 92avg and extremely dedicated to music as an EC (I have abunch of other minor community service creds and work/volunteer as a lab assistant in a research lab) but compared to some of the other posts Im seeing, it would seem that Haverford is a reach school. </p>
<p>at first i thought it was target due to the admissions statistics in my school, but my counseler said it may be a reach and now seeing what kinds of student apply, Im seriously reconsidering ED for Haverford. I lack EC, which seems to be stressed…am I in over my head here?</p>
<p>One of the reasons why I’m not a fan of “chances” posts is that for the majority of applicants to top LACs, predicting what adcoms are targeting is impossible. Such time and effort can be better spent elsewhere.</p>
<p>The schools publish their stats and you’ll not only see the average scores of their students but you’ll also see the range in scores as well. The majority of applicants are within 2 standard deviations of these figures and comprise a murky pool from which adcoms have to select a student body that is diverse in talent, interest and experience… and this job is much less predictable at LACs because enrollment is small and some LACs have distinct personalities and the added criteria of “fit” is also factored in (HC and Swat).</p>
<p>If you want to get an inside glimpse of the admission process at HC, the NYT profiled it in a series last year.</p>
<p><a href=“The New York Times > Sports > A Series: The Athlete's Edge”>The New York Times > Sports > A Series: The Athlete's Edge;
<p>thank you for the referal to the Times site. If anything, this has indimidated me even more. There a lot of the great stuff on that site though.</p>
<p>I was really wondering how non-athletes fare in the process. I’m a musician and I don’t believe that there is a recruiting process (though I will send a recording). I’ll pray for a fat envelope…</p>
<p>Oh… My intention with that reference wasn’t to “intimidate” but rather to show you how capricious admissions to top places- and admissions to LACs with distinct personalities like HC- can be. For example, I applied ED to HC and was initially shocked that I got waitlisted. I’m not really sure what I did differently (… actually, i didn’t use spell check on my application and I was kinda full of myself during my interview 
), but I later wound up getting into HC… and to a bunch of other schools like Swat and Brown as well (after learning to spell and chilling out). Annectdotally, that’s why I really don’t believe in “chances”… just meet the mean scores of the school, have a few cool activities to talk about and apply and see if the stars align for you at that moment… a lot of it really has to do with luck so there’s no point in fretting. </p>
<p>It’s very difficult for adcoms to place “value” on the merits of students (is 100 points off the SATs equivalent if the kid is a top violinist… or if not, how about if the kid is more rare… like a top tuba player?). Equally, it’s also really impossible to rank top colleges in absolute terms as well… although that doesn’t seem to stop many people on CC (is going to a college in the middle of nowhere made up by the fact that it may have a bigger endowment?). Clearly, for adcoms AND for applicants, all these things are relative and that’s why there is no formula to follow.</p>
<p>Regarding the music issue, I do know that HC is about to undertake its “last” improvements… raising the performing arts to the excellence of HC’s other strong disciplines. For that, admissions may weigh musical and artistic talent more heavily than in years past. I do know that any talent (athletic, artistic, leadership…) has always been literally flagged by admissions and a music professor impressed by your abilities will refer your name to admissions. When I mean talent that is recruited, however, that is more than being student council president for leadership or being 1st string of an orchestra for music…</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Thnx for the reassurance, it guess it is up to chance in the end. I was simply indimidated by other “chances” posts with huge extra cirric. lists that I can never match.</p>
<p>I hope my music and recordings will help pull me through.</p>
<p>Would you mind elaborating on any changes in the music department that will be coming? My son is intersted in Haverford and also has a interest in music
possibly as a minor) but has placed numerous calls to various personnel in the department and has yet to receive a call back. We tried to connect before our actual visit , but unfortuneately we hit a road block. In addition, the day we were there, we had an admissions person call, and the person on the other end stated she had to pick up her child at daycare and couldn’t talk!
We would love to hear what changes, if any, are in the works. Any news on adding new courses? Will appreciate any insights you can offer.</p>
<p>I was also a little concerned by the “sportsy-ness” of the article. My son has less than no interest in sports. I thought we’d weeded out the schools that spent a lot of time and focus on sports and were looking at those more interested in academics and the arts. Someone else on CC told me Haverford was “preppy”. I don’t think HC is really preppy or sports-obsessed, but we have only visited in the summer. Obviously, my son is comfortable with students playing sports or dressing however they like. He just doesn’t want to feel like a total outsider.</p>
<p>Music: There’re LACs with better facilities for this. The people I knew who studied music chose HC because other factors made the difference. I know 2 music majors from my class. One went to Julliard for piano after HC and he chose HC because of the friendly/ modest campus culture and strong philosophy department. He’s now a professional pianist and also a professor in music. My other friend chose HC because of the honor code and synergy with BMC. Among other things, she was an accomplished accordion player, head of Honor Council and BGALA. She finished med school and I hear she just started her residency in ophtho.</p>
<p>After strengthening its endowment, improving diversity, building a new science center and fitness facility and developing programs and resources to globalize student experiences, the focus is now on the performing and visual arts. In the prospectus for the presidential search, it explicitly states that HC is targeting its arts programs for improvements and a committee on the arts has been developing an implementation plan for the last few years. Some of it is already tangible, other ideas to be rolled out in the next year or so but the actual construction of the new arts space probably will not occur until, my guess, 2-3 years from now.</p>
<p>What they’re doing currently, and wisely, is building a campus culture to enhance the arts 1st… more visiting artists in residence, more gallery openings, more musical performances and workshops, better equipment, a sculpture garden, added selection of courses and stipends for students to pursue summer work or research in the arts. Here are some links to a few recent music performances at HC and a link to performances available at BMC and Philly. I’m sorry that you weren’t able to connect with contacts in the music department… has your son tried e-mailing the department chair or other professors with his questions?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/musc/CurrentSeason.html[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/musc/CurrentSeason.html</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/oct05/mahwash.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/oct05/mahwash.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/jan06/music.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/jan06/music.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/feb06/music.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/feb06/music.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/oct05/rangeela.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/oct05/rangeela.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/deans/SAO/arts.html[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/deans/SAO/arts.html</a></p>
<p>BMC
<a href=“http://www.brynmawr.edu/calendar/performing_arts.shtml[/url]”>http://www.brynmawr.edu/calendar/performing_arts.shtml</a></p>
<p>Philly music resources
<a href=“http://www.phillyfunguide.com/category.php?id=7[/url]”>http://www.phillyfunguide.com/category.php?id=7</a></p>
<p>Preppy: All top LACs (except for perhaps Reed) recruit athletes and HC is about average with its efforts when compared. My friends and I followed these articles with some humor cause, out of any topic worthy to be discussed in the NYT regarding HC, a series on athletics would be last. It should be emphasized that top LACs accept students who are usually multi-talented and have a diversity of interests… in the articles, several kids with high scores and who seemed only interested in sports were rejected. For that reason, your son will fit in at most top LACs. It’s not my intent to apologize for having athletic talent, but I can seriously fill up pages with personal anecdotes of kids at HC who you can’t judge by such social constructs although superficially, they may appear to fit such groupings. HC students are diverse in talent, interest and experiences… and, because of its size and Quaker traditions, students are really stimulated to get to know and appreciate people with different backgrounds… I think I wrote an essay about that in the last month or 2. Like I said before, these discussions are best held face to face, but if your son can’t make an overnight before he applies, he should check out some of the links that I’ve posted in the past so he can get an idea of what students are like… here are a few more.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/march05/watson.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/march05/watson.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/feb05/grabman.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/feb05/grabman.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/feb05/chu.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/feb05/chu.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/nov05/fossi.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/nov05/fossi.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/april06/turkus.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/april06/turkus.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/may06/harris.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/may06/harris.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/may06/suri.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/may06/suri.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/july06/coleman.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/july06/coleman.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/sept06/christmas.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/sept06/christmas.htm</a>
<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/oct06/barbershop.htm[/url]”>http://www.haverford.edu/newsletter/oct06/barbershop.htm</a></p>
<p>Thanks so much, HC Alum,</p>
<p>My son will definitely apply and we’ll make time for an overnight visit if he’s admitted and needs more info. Your input here is really helpful.</p>