Anyone have recent experience with NYYS, Juilliard PC, MSM PC, Mannes Prep, etc? I am especially looking for violin, but any feedback is welcome: audition process, level of competition, advantages during college admissions, overall value? Thank you so much!
Both of my kids were students at one of the nyc precollege for many years. Happy to discuss more in PM. Experience was great for both but a huge time commitment for the whole family. It definitely helps with college admission. S24 also is friends with kids who were in NYYS and they enjoyed there experience and it also was helpful for admissions.
We were full pay and I do think it was worth the money and many do get need based aid.
1 Like
NYYS is a great program, it was one my son did it and it has in some ways gotten better (they won a grammy award for one of their recordings). It is extremely competitive to get in there, they used to take kids 12-22, I have heard through people close to the program that they don’t take many kids that young. With NYYS the kid is getting an incredible orchestra experience (just playing at Carnegie Hall three times a year is kind of neat) and if they have any inkling of wanting to be an orchestra musician, it really can give them a taste of it, they demand a lot out of the people in it, expect them to be prepared.
Juilliard PC is basically the conservatory experience one day a week. It is extremely hard to get in there, especially on violin, there are people who literally move to the US to have kids go there (it is highly competitive across the board). Kids who are interested in music can see what conservatory/music performance is like. Another added benefit is being around really, really talented kids, it can really feed a kids love of music and make them want to work harder, get better, because the standard is high. Note that not everyone in there is a superstar (that is a myth), the range of ability varies from really good to kids who are already soloing with high level orchestras.
MSM PC isn’t as competitive as Juilliard PC is, but it is a solid program and you still have to be pretty darn good to get in there. Their structure (I am talking classical music, they have a fantastic pre college jazz program) is similar to Juilliard, the conservatory in a day.
Mannes Prep unless they have changed it drastically in recent years wasn’t as structured as the other two, kids had a lot more leeway with classes like music theory, ear training, ensembles. The level of admission there is lower than the other two, they get strong students and they have faculty who in fact teach at the other schools, but on average the level of playing IME is lower there .
Re advantage in college admissions: That is one of those “it depends what you mean”. If you are talking about getting into a stand alone music school, or even the music school in a university, the value of the program there will be in how it affects the students playing level for the audition. New York Youth Symphony might help that, in that your technical playing ability is needed there, with the prep programs it obviously is in preparing your playing to meet the admission requirements. But for the music school, it will be the audition, they won’t look at Julliard pre college and give that weight in your being admitted (there is a small caveat to that; if you are applying to a program where a teacher there knew you at pre college, that can help with admissions, or if applying to Juilliard from the pre college, you don’t have to go through pre screen, and if you study with a teacher in pre c who teaches at the conservatory level, that can help).
With music schools in universities, it is possible as an EC having music background, especially at a high level, will help with the university side, though honestly based on my experience, not sure how much it well help (on the university side, it is mostly grades and test scores for music performance admits).
One place it can help is if the student is aiming for an elite school (like HYP) with tough admissions. If the kid is otherwise academically suitable for that level of school, being an accomplished musician can give you an edge in admissions. Many of them have orchestra programs they are proud of, they offer to pay for kids lessons, can have chamber and so forth. NYYS would be a marker for this kind of admission IME as well. I have seen plenty of kids who went from these programs into elite colleges and universities, whether they studied music or not, many keep playing and some go on to study performance in grad school.
I think all of them are great experiences in their own way, it certainly won’t hurt the student to go into any of these programs. In terms of ROI, if you are talking music school admission I would say getting into Juilliard PC or MSM PC would give you more of an edge, in terms of playing level. The other value of the PC programs and NYYS as I said earlier is it gives them a taste of what being a music student is or what it is like being in a pro orchestra, to see if they want to do it.
One note, doing a program like Juilliard PC and NYYS can be pretty tiring, Juilliard is an all day Saturday program, and NYYS rehearsal is on Sundays and it is pretty intense. My S stopped doing NYYS after his first year at Juilliard PC, he felt it was just too much for him.
One note with MSM and Juilliard PC, if you want to shoot for it, I would highly recommend studying with a teacher who teaches there, it will increase their chances of getting in, because the teacher knows what they are looking for in terms of level of playing, and also because they can influence admissions (like college level music programs, a teacher has to want to teach you, if they know you and especially really like you, they will advocate for you).
1 Like
My experience with the NY programs is quite old – my own experiences instead of my kids’ experiences. As such, I am not so sure how helpful I can be with specifics, but I would like to comment on the general concept of pre-college programs versus orchestra programs.
There is no doubt about orchestra being really fun. While there will always be some gain in skills from any musical opportunity, the amount you gain as an individual player from an orchestra-focused program will always be significantly less than from a pre-college program (for a string player). Now, if your student is not looking to major in music, is trying to get into an Ivy, or is looking at a double major at a college, orchestra is going to be just fine. But if your kid’s goal is a top conservatory, they are better off doing a pre-college program. Generally, the time commitment for both is quite significant, so most people have to choose one or the other.
Pre-college programs are much more comprehensive. Time is spent on orchestra, but also in chamber music, theory, and lessons, among other opportunities. Students in pre-college programs tend to spend more time on individual practice and development, and also gain a lot of important skills from chamber music. They tend to be much better prepared for conservatory. They also tend to have better networking, lesson/masterclass, and performance opportunities.
My kids did the youth symphony here in Chicago up until age 12/13 and then switched to a pre-college program. They enjoyed orchestra for the most part (though there were some issues with age vs. level placement), but absolutely loved the pre-college program. Comparing them to their peers who stayed in orchestra, they advanced much more as individual performers. The level of students in the pre-college program is also generally higher than the orchestra programs as well, meaning they are playing with higher level peers more reguarly.
I hope that helps!
3 Likes
Hey—sorry for the late reply, but thank you so much for your responses! They were all very helpful 
Re @helpingthekid73 I sent a DM, but I’m new to the site so I’m not sure if it went through lol. Thank you for offering to share your experiences!
I’m not planning on being a music major, but I do genuinely love the violin/classical music and would like to continue somehow. I’m not sure if this will be through a music minor, university orchestra, or just continuing lessons yet, but either way I’d love to get more experience.
The reason I asked about advantage in college admissions is that it’s a huge time and financial commitment, and I would want to consider all factors before deciding. And of course the leg up doesn’t hurt lol.
Re @old_music_prnt I am leaning towards MSM, and if I do decide, I’d be interested in doing a trial lesson. Do you know if I just email or if there’s another way to get in contact? Thank you so much!
Going to pm you now.
1 Like
@chordsandaccords It sounds like you like music and want to keep pursuing it but not to major in it (specifically performance) and that is great. With that focus, you still want to find a good teacher , since it is a lot more satisfying IMO to play as well as you can. Most of this is going to come down to what your interests are, what you enjoy. Juilliard pre college for example is an intense musical experience, which you may enjoy, and a lot of kids who go there are not intending to major in music but many keep playing in college in college orchestras and the like; some will later go on to get a masters in music performance if they decide they want to continue. The thing you have to ask yourself is what you want out of it.At Juilliard and MSM, you will be taking classes in music theory and solfege (ear training), as well as orchestra and chamber music (plus of course individual lessons with your teacher). It is all in a single day, so it is a lot in very little time, and it is a commitment. MSM pre college is not quite as competitive as Juilliard’s but it still has a pretty high bar to get in.
You could also study privately with a teacher that teaches at one of the pre college programs, or find an independent NY high level teacher, and if you want to do orchestra, try NYYS. They also have a chamber program as well.
Again it comes down to what you want and need. I can tell you that having music as an EC does help with college admissions at differing levels. The admissions people know the kind of dedication it takes to get into programs like Juilliard pre college and MSM and the level of playing required and it stands out, and something like NYYS wouldn’t hurt either because it is a very high level program to get into, it isn’t easy. For some colleges it is a sign of dedication and self discipline, for others it might be that and they put an emphasis on their college orchestras and music programs (for example, Ivy league schools like Princeton, Harvard, Columbia and others are very proud of their college orchestras, there are other high level colleges that have a similar attitude). Being in a high level music program will likely help at most colleges in terms of value as an EC, at some of the elite schools it can be a pretty big help IME (note it doesn’t mean you don’t need to be a top student to get in, this just gives an edge against similarly high performing students who apply).
With getting in touch with teachers for sample lessons or to see if they will be willing to take you on, the teachers often have their own websites and you can contact them via email. If they don’t, often the schools websites (for the pre college programs or even the conservatory) will have email addresses on their website. If they don’t, you could contact the school and ask if there is some way you can contact the teachers via email, explain why you are asking.
I wish you luck, music is a great thing to have in your life:)
Thank you so much!! I agree, I would like to play as well as I can 
and music has been a really valuable experience for me. I will try to get in contact with some teachers. Thank you again!