Hi There! I’m trying to help my junior create a potential list of schools. I would love your advice!
He’s taking honors Chemistry this year and loves the topic, but I don’t think he is 100% sold on committing to a major yet but he is interested in Chemistry and Chemical Engineering. He has a 3.5 UW GPA so far. It’s been mostly a mix of A’s and B’s, with A grades in his math and science classes. He has taken honors where he could - and school doesn’t offer much AP work until senior year. He has taken the SAT once without studying and I’ll just say he could probably get to 1350-1400 with some tutoring/prep.
He’s very curious and he likes hands-on learning as well. He is also dyslexic, which these days mainly impacts his writing. I think it’s important to find a school with decent supports and easy access to professors (older siblings are both at liberal arts colleges and thriving), but he’s not sold on that aspect yet. We are lucky that there are no cost restrictions or geographic restrictions. He also loves watching sports, so that has shaped much of his list. He would like a fair amount of black students and ethnic diversity as well so there are a few HBCU’s on the list.
He has a random list so far - which includes Syracuse, Colorado State, Colorado School of Mines, University of Pittsburgh, and Tuskegee so far. He was very interested in New Mexico Tech until he saw there were 8 black students enrolled there. It looks like he’ll have some in-state safety options (we are in CA) as well.
For CSUs and UCs, be sure to recalculate HS GPA. GPA Calculator for the University of California – RogerHub is a handy calculator. Most UC web sites use the weighted-capped HS GPA. CSU also uses the weighted-capped GPA, except that any semester college courses count double (as if they were two semesters of courses and grades each).
Before I start working on a list of possibilities, I have a few clarifying questions:
Is it important that he be rooting for the college team, or just that there are people present who enjoy watching sports enthusiastically? Does the team have to be a good team or just one that has spirited fans?
Is there a minimum number or minimum percentage that he would like to be present on-campus? For instance, Colorado State is 3% black (but 3% of the undergrad population is 775); CO School of Mines is 1% black (so about 58 undergrads). How do those numbers work for your son?
My son is a chemical engineering major at Syra cuse. He matriculated as engineering undeclared, which was important to him, but ended up deciding his major quickly. He really enjoys the ethnic diversity (including a decent proportion of Black students) and people are wild about sports there. His class sizes are small and he’s been very happy with the quality of instruction he’s received. He also teaches supplemental instruction courses to other students. I’d be happy to answer any questions you might have.
For sports: good teams and spirited fans would be a great combo, but I think he’d be fine with spirited fans and just ok sports. Something to think about for sure.
As for numbers wise - I don’t think he knows yet and that was something to ask about in his research and to feel out during the tours. He has cousins that have attended both Colorado schools and they’ve been talked up for years. Maybe a higher percentage at the small schools would be more comfortable though.
U of Arizona is 4% black but less than half white so very diverse and has the SALT center for learning disabilities.
I think a lot of what you seek will depend on budget. What can you afford ? Will a Syracuse get you there ??
What is the current SAT vs the hopeful ?
For ChemE, U Del is a home run with not difficult admissions. Not sure about for that program itself though.
The issue with a N Mexico Tech or Col School of Mines is that 50% of engineering majors don’t make it and your son doesn’t appear overly strong. Solid but not overly strong. Sorry. What level of math will he get ?
My point here is a diversity of majors would be helpful in case neither Chem or ChemE end up working - so a more expansive school academically may work best.
In terms of chemistry versus chemical engineering, would he prefer studying the natural universe (science, including chemistry) or solving design problems using principles from science and math (engineering)? That can help him decide what kind of major is preferable.
Chemical engineering majors do tend to have better paid job prospects at graduation than chemistry majors, based on College Scorecard numbers.
Thanks for articulating my concerns! Paying for Syracuse is doable. We can readily pay the cost of attendance for a private university for 4 years, but we wouldn’t want to pay for 7-8 years (my nephew went that route ) and graduating would be important. I think my kid is a solid student but I have also seen the competition out here and especially in engineering so the engineering dropout rate is something that gives me pause.
He’ll take AP Calc A/B next year as his final HS math class.
He took the SAT for the first time this fall with no review - it was 1160 with a 590R/560M.
The risk for an individual student is likely well correlated to prior math and science preparation. If your student is earning A grades in math (and it looks like he reach calculus) and science (including chemistry and physics), then the likelihood of completing an engineering major is higher.
It may be a cause of concern if AP exam scores for any math and science AP courses were lower than 4 in courses where he earned A grades in, or if that were a common trend within the school (suggesting below-standard course quality or excessive grade inflation).
UCs and CSUs in California do not use SAT scores for admission, although there may be some use for placement purposes.
But a higher SAT score may be helpful for admission or scholarships at some other schools, so it may be worth it for him to try to determine which parts of the SAT he had difficulty with and prep those parts. Or also consider whether he does significantly better on the ACT using an old released ACT for practice under simulated test conditions.
Sure - I do think while that SAT you hope for is possible and it can be studied, that sort of lift is unlikely. If you have ACT access, it might be worth a try.
I believe more hands on schools will include RIT, WPI and Louisville - yes Louisville - but that might be three names to check as well.
I think with any school - depending on the level of support needed - to find out who truly offers it is probably key - whether a large school like Arizona (which I think you pay extra for) or a small.
As an initial screen, I looked at schools that were ABET-accredited for chemical engineering, as that seemed to be one of the most limiting factors. I pulled a few different categories of schools:
HBCUs
Schools with a reputation for being very hands-on
Residential schools with sub-10k undergrads
Schools with known reputations for big sports
Schools I was curious as to how they’d stack up in terms of the percentage of black students
For each of those schools I looked at the # of undergrads, percentage of black students, number of black students, the number of Bachelor’s degrees conferred in SY22-23 in engineering (as a proxy for the size of the program), and the Niche athletic grade. The table with all of that information is below as it may save others the work of finding out this information in the future (i.e., I am not recommending all of these, but these were the ones I did some research on).
If this was my kid, these are the schools I would have him start looking at (that are not already on his list…I really like Syracuse for him, too):
U. of Tulsa (OK): About 2500 undergrads, so this is a smaller school that will probably be higher-touch (the university’s president even posts on the forum sometimes!). It has an A- for athletics and the enrollment is 8% black (about 200 students). But it’s not just a technical school, so there’s an array of options should your son change his mind.
Widener (PA ): About 2800 undergrads, so another school that will likely be pretty high-touch. 23% of students (nearly 650) identified as black. Although it doesn’t have a great athletic grade on Niche, there are a number of professional sports teams in the Philly area, and I suspect he could find enthusiastic fans.
Hampton (VA): An HBCU of about 3300 undergrads, so likely to be supportive and high-touch here as well. B+ for athletics from Niche.
Florida A&M: Another HBCU, FAMU has about 7800 undergrads. The engineering program is shared with Florida State, so the number of engineering grads is probably much higher when thinking of the combined program. B+ for athletics at this school.
Tulane (LA): About 8100 undergrads. Although it has a low admission rate, it really wants students who are excited about Tulane, so if your son becomes so, I don’t think this school is out of reach (if he demonstrates that excitement and what a good fit it is for him). A- for athletics and the city has a lot of spirit around its NFL team, too.
U. of Dayton (OH): About 8200 undergrads, so a mid-sized school, but still much smaller than most engineering schools. A- for athletics with 5% black (a little over 400 students). @EconPop’s kid attended here and may have some feedback to offer.
Howard (D.C.): About 10k undergrads at this HBCU. If your son gets his SAT score up, he may also want to check out the Karsh STEM Scholars program. If you’re interested in more info, @ChangeTheGame has had two kids come through here.
U. of Maryland – Baltimore County: This is not the main campus, but it’s still classified as residential. This campus is very STEM focused and has several programs designed to support minority students in STEM (like the Meyerhoff program for students interested in STEM doctorates). 24% identify as black (more than 2500 students), and I suspect that UMBC roots for College Park’s teams.
North Carolina A&T: About 12k undergrads at this HBCU that gets an A- for its Niche athletic grade and has a good reputation for producing engineers.
Drexel (PA ): About 14k undergrads here, so getting larger. But Drexel is well known for its co-op culture, so having that might be good for your son’s learning style. 9% black (over 1200 students) and a B+ for athletics. And again, lots of professional Philly sports teams.
U. of Louisville (KY): About 16k undergrads at this school that gets an A+ for athletics. Its engineering school modeled itself after Cal Poly – SLO and uses its motto of “learn by doing.” 16% identify as black (nearly 2600 students). (Already mentioned as well.)
U. of Cincinnati (OH): About 31k undergrads with 9% (over 2800) identifying as black. It has an “A” Niche grade and also has a big focus on co-ops, so that type of real-life experience might be helpful for your son.
U. of Arizona: Seconding this if he wants something closer to home with big fan spirit (A+ on Niche) as its SALT program could be very helpful. But there’s almost 42k undergrads here, so without SALT, he would likely have to be pretty self-driven about seeking assistance.
Actually, the joint FAMU - FSU engineering campus is about 2 miles from each of the main campuses of FAMU and FSU, which are only about 1 mile away from each other.
Reading your son’s profile - especially the interest in chemistry combined with a very practical/hands-on temperament - makes me wonder whether he has considered some of the chem-heavy majors that tend to fall under agriculture, such as food science. On his current list, Tuskegee has this Undergraduate Food Science Program | Tuskegee University, and FAMU does too Food Science. (NC A&T also, but their program looks a little more nutrition-ish which might not fit his interests as well; a kid who is thinking ChemE would probably like a program that’s more about product development, or processes related to food production, food safety, etc.) Just something to think about, as there are great employment prospects and a lot of commonalities with engineering, but possibly a path that pays off in rewarding, practical applications a little more quickly than a lot of ABET engineering programs where students have to grind through a lot of heavy theory, higher math, etc. before getting to the fun parts.
Another advantage of the ag-based majors is that they can be more attainable, admissions-wise, at schools that would be out of reach for engineering. (For example, Virginia Tech, Michigan State, Purdue, Ohio State, UIUC - not saying any of these would be an easy admit, but they could be worth an app for food science whereas applying to engineering would probably not be fruitful.)
Maybe the idea doesn’t resonate at all, but it’s something that can end up being a fit for some kids who never had occasion to think about ag-adjacent majors in high school, so it seemed worth running up the flagpole.
I’ll suggest Manhattan University (7% black) in NYC where about a third of the students are enrolled in engineering and which has a long established major in chemical engineering.
A few years ago Money Magazine named Manhattan the #1 transformative college because students there significantly outperformed students at other colleges with similar high school grades and backgrounds. The college attributes their results to their Office of Academic Success, which works closely with students whenever they are identified as struggling in a particular class. For a dyslexic young man, this kind of support could be very helpful.
) and graduating would be important. I think my kid is a solid student but I have also seen the competition out here and especially in engineering so the engineering dropout rate is something that gives me pause.