Recruiting and identifying safeties? (football)

Athletic Recruits
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<p>Hi everyone, just checking something. We have had a lot of early interest from schools where son is not a good match, for example the school’s academic requirements are well beneath what Son’s transcript can offer, and we are not going for a scholarship, but instead the best academic school possible. So those have been weeded out.</p>

<p>However, some other schools are coming closer, for example schools with average SATs up to 200 points lower than what we have. Perfectly nice schools, but looks like son could get in academically without football. </p>

<p>Are these what are considered true safeties? Or would safeties be schools where he is an academic match (his SATs being right at the school’s median) and being recruited for football.</p>

<p>I guess what I am saying is that I am having a hard time figuring out how football affects the application range. I know for many other sports it is still strictly an academic analysis and that recruits must still meet standards shared by the rest of the student population.</p>

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<p>I think a lot of people have been through this. From what I have been able to read here and elsewhere, you should probably treat the reach, match and safety question strictly by academics like any other student. Don’t ever “depend” on your sport since you never know what can happen with the recruiting process. Or heaven forbid your athlete is injured, particularly with football. I was talking to someone the other day who said they had a nephew who was 6’5" 290 being recruited and scouted by several coaches at a senior year game. Right in front of everyone he came down on something wrong and his ankle snapped. Supposedly, as soon as he was in the ambulance, or even before, the coaches got up and walked right on out. (By the way it turned out fine, the student had good grades and is now like any other valuable member of society.) </p>

<p>Target your schools by academics only, as if you did not have football, pay attention to who is interested in your athlete (and pay attention back) and be pleasantly surprised if you realize you are getting a boost somewhere. This is my take, anyway. Maybe some of the posters who have been here a lot longer will have more to say.</p>

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<p>Which schools are your son considering. I’m in the exact same boat right now. Currently being recruited by all the Ivies and some top tier academic D3 schools such as U Chicago and have done extensive research on this topic.</p>

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<p>gingerpeach, thank you for that answer. In reading it several times I realize you are probably right and I wasn’t looking at it from that perspective!</p>

<p>owenmoore I think we are indeed in the same boat. I hoped no one thought I was trying to denigrate any schools we were weeding out, and I won’t name any, but they really were schools that were for example having averages of 400s SATs on all parts. Like everyone here we just hoped that his sport (football in our case) would provide some advantage. I think gingerpeach’s analysis is spot on. Apply academically to schools with football programs where he could see himself attending and playing, and be pleasantly surprised if football helps him get into a reach or even into a match where without sports maybe he’d possibly not have the most interesting application background compared to another student with equal stats.</p>

<p>Any other football parents want to share how many schools in general are on their contact lists right now as of June 1? We have about ten. I’ve been told that after camps this goes down to about 5 and by September we should be down to 2-3 where they have your applications and scores and the real negotiations begin. Does this sound about right? Should we have more schools now than 10?</p>

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<p>My football son has limited his list to about 10 as well, as he knocked out some Ivies for various reasons. So he has a good mix of 4 Ivies, a few Patriot, a few Colonial and a few D3 where he knows he will get in. He will camp at 4 Ivies, one Patriot, one CAA and one D3. </p>

<p>His position gets recruited last (kicker) so we have been told to expect more teams to pop up this sumemer/fall. I would prefer a wider net but it is hard enough to get him to look closely at even the schools on this short list. Also, he has an acceptable D3 option with big merit $ pretty much assured, so there are only a few other schools out there that would become part of his list if they express real interest.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure how prestigious of an academic school you are looking at but for me at UChicago they want 3.8 GPA or 30 ACT whereas if I were applying without football they would expect 4.0+ and a 33-36 ACT with spectacular ECs ivies are even less. The minimum ACT you must have for them is anywhere from 25-27 depending on the school</p>

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<p>S has only SATs at the moment. Waiting for end of year GPA, he took SAT2s today and will take ACT next week. So we shall see !</p>

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<p>Where I’m from ACT is more commonly used so I’m not too familiar with SAT but he should be able to get in with 3-5 pts lower than average with ACT just as long as its above an 18</p>

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<p>Some other people could probably chime right in here but like many others we’ve been to Coach Mills’ amazing recruit speech. We have been to Amherst camp twice. This last time we had the speech in the chapel (lovely building, by the way, with original glass, I love original window glass). </p>

<p>Coach Mills had a definite speech on ACT vs. SAT. The bottom line seemed to be that Admissions can’t take SAT1 without SAT2, although they don’t consider SAT2 at all. Also, that ACT has some factor where if you score (for example) a 29.5 they will round you up to a 30. And, supposedly, as each point on the ACT roughly translates into 50 SAT points, if you get the extra automatic half point on the ACT that’s rounded up, you automatically go up 25 points on your SAT which can actually be a big deal, if you’re between a 1975 and 2000. Or something like that. That last part, I had to come home and think about.</p>

<p>Anyway, Coach Mills at Amherst likes good students, likes good football players and likes the ACT more than the SAT. That I totally took away from the entire day. Also, we were there last year (2012) and although the coaches were awesome, I have to say, for a school of Amherst’s caliber, I couldn’t totally understand the football facility. This year we went back because Son really really likes Amherst, and guess what. Everything has been gutted, there is a new multimillion $ facility going in, there is nothing we saw last year that still stands today. It’s all gone. Really, REALLY new facility going in that is supposed to be ready for the first kick off.</p>

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<p>ChicagoMama,</p>

<p>I agree wholeheartedly with the GingerPeach about considering a school a safety based on academics alone. We just finished the process and chose safeties based on academics alone, using football for schools that were reaches based on academics alone, ie, most of the Ivies and a few very high academic Patriot and D3 schools.</p>

<p>Based on academics, I would strongly caution against treating a school as a safety if S’s SAT scores are at the median for that school (medians are misleading, eg, they take into account all those students who would not have been admitted without their own hook, they are manipulated by schools to increase their ranking, etc.). IMO, I would set the bar at least at the 75% level to even think of labeling it a safety and MOST IMPORTANTLY I believe that no school with an acceptance rate lower than 20% should ever be considered a safety by anyone - these schools reject kids with 4.0s and 800 SATs by the dozens and are a crapshoot for everyone.</p>

<p>Regarding ACT v SAT, I suggest that students take both. Some kids score better on one than the other because of the format alone. ACT has science but is generally regarded as less “tricky” than the SAT.</p>

<p>As for looking to play football at schools that S might get into based on academics alone, I would suggest that you be aware of the following scenario: Some NESCAC coaches may not support the application of a player they otherwise want because they have only a limited of tips/slots, think the player has a good chance to be accepted without their support, and save their support for players who need it more. The risk is that if you are one of these players, you may simply not be admitted on academics alone and so can’t go to that school even though the coach wanted you. This is not urban legend, I can attest to it happening. My suggestion is that you find S in this situation, you strongly vocalize Ss preference for that school and make sure you understand what level of support that coach will provide.</p>

<p>Also, if you want support from a NESCAC coach, the coach will more than likely require you to apply ED (binding).</p>

<p>Scorewise, qualifying to be recruited by the Ivies is easier to predict than the NESCACs and D3s. Its fairly easy to calculate an approximation of a student’s AI (read the NYT article 12/25/2011 and visit Varska’s website for the calculator) as well as each schools band ranges. I’m pretty sure I posted my guestimates of each Ivy’s band range elsewhere on this forum.</p>

<p>Hope this all helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.</p>

<p>Enjoy the recruiting process. It’s nerve-wracking, filled with highs and lows, but can be a lot of fun if you can keep everything in perspective.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>I agree with myluckydog’s assessment of NESCAC schools in particular, and I think this also happens in many other top d3 schools. I have heard of too many supposed “recruits” not getting into schools or being waitlisted (actual athletes that I know personally, not rumors or gossip) when the coach was supposedly supporting the athlete.</p>

<p>I have also heard of the reverse…I know of a case where an athlete who was not a top recruit but who appeared on the scene right before the ED deadline, was told by the coach to go ahead and apply ED even though he had already promised his slots to others. This athlete DID get in, which makes me think she got in based on academics alone (she was a very good student) or that the coach gave her a slot he had promised someone else (gasp). In either case, that’s just scary, unless the coach spells out for you the risk that you are taking (they don’t always do that).</p>

<p>It’s very frustrating, but all you can do is go in with your eyes open.</p>

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<p>Chicagomama - My son has about 14 schools to toss about right now. We haven’t seen them all yet to know which schools will make the short list. We are keeping all balls in the air right now until after the camps and visits.</p>

<p>I am also having a hard time getting him to identify safeties. Most colleges showing interest I feel are reaches or a good match. So, I am hoping football helps out a bit.</p>