Reflection on College Experience

I recently graduated from Georgetown’s McDonough School of Business a few years ago. While making my college decision, I regularly followed this forum and made use of the valuable guidance provided by others. Now that I am in the working world, I often reflect on my college experience and consider what I wish I had done differently. I wanted to share my advice with others so that they can learn from my mistake.

As a wide-eyed, 18-year-old high school senior, I was very academic and eager to go to the best college possible. I graduated at the top of my class and secured early admission to my top choices: Georgetown, UChicago, and UMich LS&A (in state). I was interested in investing and was confident I wanted to attend business school. After being rejected from UMich’s Ross preadmission program, I committed to Georgetown. My family and I decided that the security of being accepted to a four-year business program outweighed the uncertainty of applying to Ross after my freshman year at UMich, despite the significantly higher tuition. I had graduated as a valedictorian of my high school class and scored in the top 99% on my standardized tests, giving me a lot of confidence that I could replicate this success at Georgetown (like most other incoming students at Georgetown).

Growing up in Michigan, I was a UMich fan throughout most of my childhood. Although I always held UMich in high regard, I downplayed its prestige. The fact that in-state admission standards for UMich were noticeably lower than those of other prestigious, out-of-state universities heavily influenced this thinking. In my hometown, at least, UMich did not quite have the same “wow” factor as schools like Georgetown or UChicago. Since I understood that success in the business field depended heavily on where one goes to school, I felt that the added prestige was important. My desire to attend Georgetown was also fueled by the fact that I had heard horror stories about the unpredictability of Ross admissions for first-year UMich applicants. That was a risk I was not willing to take.

At Georgetown, however, I felt that the quality of education was a disappointment. While I was fortunate to have some great professors and insightful experiences, I do not feel that Georgetown offered good value for what it offered. This is not the case simply because it was difficult; the consensus among myself and friends was that several courses were not as well taught as they should be. I worked very hard at Georgetown and graduated with honors (~3.6 GPA) while being involved in several extracurriculars. I now work at a middle-tier consulting firm making ~$65K / year. While I could have potentially made more money working on Wall Street, I decided during recruiting season that investment banking was not the route I wanted to take. I am still content with this decision, as nearly all of my banking friends are similarly miserable at their jobs despite their much higher salaries.

As I reflect on my experience, I wish I had focused more on the end rather than the means to that end. In other words, I should have paid more attention to the potential jobs my education would lead to rather than merely the education itself. I wrongfully assumed that being above average at Georgetown would lead to a lucrative career. At the same time, I assumed that majoring in finance would put me in a good position to begin some sort of investing career. Georgetown recruiting, despite what you may hear, is focused almost exclusively on finance and consulting. Finance jobs are essentially all geared towards Wall Street, where analysts spend 80-90 hours building financial models, pitch books, etc. It is nothing more than meaningless grunt work.

I often compare my career path to that of my peers from high school who selected fields like dentistry, medicine, etc. I am shocked by just how much more difficult the business path is. At schools like Georgetown, not only do you have to get accepted at a school with a ~12% acceptance rate, but you also need to be the cream of the crop among the 12%. Meanwhile, several of my high school peers went to very easy undergrads and finished with 3.8+ GPAs with minimal effort. Since fields like dentistry and medicine are so heavily focused on GPA, my peers merely played the system to secure admission to their desired professional schools. They benefited from studying under programs with very lenient curves and rampant grade inflation – the exact opposite of Georgetown. Most of these peers would not even have a chance of getting into schools like Georgetown in the first place, let alone graduating with credentials strong enough to succeed in the recruiting process. I say this not to belittle these peers, but rather to put this comparison in better context for others to understand.

Even if I had opted to go into business, I would definitely choose UMich over Georgetown if I could redo my decision. As a high school senior, I wrongfully assumed that being in business school was a necessary prerequisite for business school. This is not the case; firms actively recruit non-business majors. In fact, one could argue that it is advantageous not to be in business school for recruiting, as this sets you apart from the pack and makes it much less likely that you’ll be drilled with technicals during interviews. I have several friends in the SFS and College who did just as well in recruiting as my McDonough friends. Even if I had gone to UMich and failed to get into Ross, I would have been just as well off in peripheral majors like Economics. Even better, I would have done so by spending around half as much as Georgetown.

I am very fortunate to come from a wealthy family where my parents make upwards of $400K+ per year. My parents generously covered the costs of attending Georgetown for me. While my parents fully supported my decision to go to Georgetown and realize that I gave my best effort as a student (I spent countless hours studying and was not the partying type), I feel a tremendous amount of shame for not giving them a better return on their investment. I imagine other graduates of higher education programs feel the same, and I can only imagine how graduates with student loans feel about their experience.

In summary, I consider my decision to go to Georgetown the worst decision I have ever made. Despite working very hard and graduating with honors, I find myself in a miserable low-paying job. While I am trying to dig myself out of this hole (studying for and taking the CFA exams, looking for new jobs, etc.), I still have a long way to go. The worst part about my decision is that, by spending so much on Georgetown, it is now very difficult to spend more money to get myself out of this position. I am very hesitant to consider additional education like an MBA, PhD, or even pivoting in another direction altogether. My life would be so much easier if I had selected a cheaper and easier undergraduate school with a more linear path towards future earning power. Please let me know if you have questions; I am happy to answer and help you avoid making the same mistake as me.

So, tl;dr - you’re not making enough money considering how much the education cost you?

What does it have to do with Georgetown? You are the one that decided to go a business school, and you also decided you didn’t want to work 80-90 hr investment banking job, and now you are complaining about making 65K? People who are making 100K+ base with 30k+ bonus are working 80+ hrs a week. I hate to say it, other than Wharton, most UG business majors are regarded as easier majors.

There are not that many jobs out there that would pay more than 65K for a first year graduate and not require long hours. If you want a lucrative career, consulting is not the way to go.

career path >>>>>>>

This Is a problem for me, you graduated in 2016. You aren’t even on a career path yet. You just left uni. Aren’t you merely petulant about your job choices and salary (common enough for the generation perceived to want it all, and right now)? How much $$ do you want?

Thank you for your post as my DS is considering finance/business for college as well, and ur post would be a good one to have him see another perspective.
How do you see the networking potential (alums and fellow classmates) of going to Georgetown? Does it give you some bang of the bucks?
Good luck in getting the CFA, I still remember the pain my DH went thru many years ago for the three exams, and he hated them so much that he even refused to hang the certificate in his office. But it is the necessary evil…

You do realize you just started your career in business and you are already making 65k a year? The average HH income in the U.S. is 57k so you’re making over the average of two people.

So you are saying that Georgetown is a demanding school and that is a negative.

They gave you all the tools to be successful and happy and you never learned how to use them. That’s your problem.

I don’t know why you’re all dumping on the OP since he is basically saying what many posters on this website say: be careful about picking prestige over other considerations, especially financial. I would say the OP has some hard-earned wisdom to share.

Thanks for writing this. I wish more kids came back to CC after their 4 years to give a clear-eyed perspective.

I think this is a bit of entitlement perspective…1) I think I am better than my in-state option, 2) I am not into working long hours, but I should get paid more than 65K, 3) because I went to a prestigious college then I should be entitled to get paid more and do better than other students from my high school who went to lower tier schools.

Again, this has nothing to do with Georgetown.

Thanks for sharing your story @prudentstudent25. Hopefully it will help others who find themselves to be making the same choice you did. Especially in cases where the student’s parents are not as wealthy as yours are and are thinking of taking on debt or spending their hard earned savings.

@prudentstudent25 I also would like to thank you for posting your perspective. I think that this is valuable.

We see a lot of posts on CC from high school students who want to go to the most prestigious university that they can get into. IMHO your post helps to remind us that it is more complex than that, and students need to think about what is a good fit for them.

How you could have known as a high school student whether Michigan would turn out to be a better fit than Georgetown is of course a rather difficult question. I have wondered the same thing about the choice that I made at the same point in my life (somewhat longer ago in the past). Probably neither of us will ever know what would have happened had we made the other choice.

“I decided during recruiting season that investment banking was not the route I wanted to take.”

“I assumed that majoring in finance would put me in a good position to begin some sort of investing career.”
Which is it?

You made assumptions as a hs senior, many through college, (you state that here,) and seem to be still making assumptions. It’s not that simple.

I don’t think you know yet what you do want. But I can’t get past the number of choices you made, which you seem to blame the school for.

I went to Ross for a BBA. I think you are over estimating how things would be different if you had gone to Ross, except that your parents (who realistically could well afford it) would have spent less on your education.

Also, you have completely unrealistic expectations for the salary that someone 1.5 years out of college ought to make. You will make more at the consulting firm if you stick with it. But why should someone pay a 23 year old a gob of money no matter what education they have, unless they have an extremely rare skill set? You majored in finance. What is so special about that, regardless of what school you went to? You sound bitter for the wrong reasons, and entitled. Your DEGREE does not give you any right to a high salary. It is what you do for your company and your clients on a sustained basis over time that will help you build a strong career.

I worked for one of those “mid tier” consulting companies for about 10 years. I learned a LOT – no one year was the springboard to future success, though. The accumulation of years of experience with various clients and with gradually increasing amounts of responsibility helped me build a formidable skill set that allows me to be very successful today. But no one a year or two out of undergrad is worth all that much, honestly.

Thank you all for your comments - I appreciate your interest in my story.

@Gatormama: Yes, this is the point I am making.

@oldfort: You are correct in that this is not entirely a Georgetown-specific issue. I would feel the same way if I was in this position after attending another top private university with steep tuition. I also agree that salary should be commensurate with hours worked. I am not arguing that I should be making 100K+ while working consulting hours.

With that being said, however, I tried to convey that the only way to make a Georgetown McDonough education worth it is to go into investment banking (consulting does not offer a sufficient return on investment). And the only way to go into investment banking is to get into a top target school like Georgetown and graduate near the top of your class. There are cheaper and easier alternatives to making a lot of money. For example, I could have pursued a scholarship at another school and spent less time studying to earn a higher GPA and get into dental or medical school. This was the better route taken by several of my high school peers, almost all of whom I outperformed in high school.

@Sybylla: I would argue that I am on a career path. My complaint about my salary is not related to entitlement. With the exception of my Georgetown education, I live a frugal lifestyle and do not have high spending needs. Instead, I am merely disappointed that I failed to give my parents a better return on their investment.

@makemesmart: Thanks for the kind words regarding the CFA. I do feel that the alumni network of going to Georgetown may be a redeeming factor down the road. Alums continue to take a lot of pride in Georgetown and I imagine that will translate into continued networking potential.

At the same time, however, I feel that many of my fellow classmates would not go out of their way to help others. There is definitely some truth to the stereotype of business school kids. While I was fortunate to develop a good friend group within McDonough, McDonough has its fair share of kids who only look out for themselves (there is a reason why it is referred to as Slytherin on campus).

@ab2002: I understand my salary in the context of the general population. However, the average household does not spend anywhere near $250K+ on undergraduate education. Given this investment, I do feel that I should be making a higher starting salary than $65K.

@TomSrOfBoston: I am sorry if my post came off as entitled. Although I regret attending Georgetown, I am appreciative of the opportunity to study there and realize that it is a great academic institution.

I am indeed saying that Georgetown is a demanding school. While this is not negative in itself, it is negative for students like me who work hard but do not perform quite well enough to graduate near the top of their class. Although I worked hard at Georgetown, I just was not able to attain the grades I had hoped for.

My point is that Georgetown is only worth attending for those who are very confident that they can graduate at or near the top of their class. These are the students who earn the most lucrative jobs, and deservedly so. For students who cannot meet this threshold, they would be better off attending another university with a better return on investment or considering other fields besides business.

@blprof: Thank you – I appreciate the kind words.

@SouthernHope: Thank you – I appreciate the kind words.

@oldfort: 1) I would agree that, as a high school student, I did consider myself somewhat better than my in-state option. When I was applying, it was significantly easier to get into UMich in-state than Georgetown. However, the main reason I selected Georgetown over UMich was because I was directly admitted to its four-year business school. If I had been admitted as a Ross preadmit, I would have selected UMich over Georgetown in a heartbeat.

  1. I agree that salary should be commensurate with hours worked. If I am working consulting hours, I should not be making banking money. The bigger issue is my realization that the only way to make a Georgetown McDonough education worth it is to go into investment banking. As a high school senior, I was most interested in investing and did not realize that investment banking is at odds with this interest (no, putting together pitch books and building DCF models is not investing).

  2. My comparison with high school peers was not that I should be paid more for attending a more prestigious school. Rather, I acknowledged that our academic system allows students to attend significantly easier schools than Georgetown and earn artificially inflated GPAs to secure admission to graduate schools (dental, medicine, etc.) with similar earning power as investment banking.

@WilliamNYC: Thank you – I appreciate the kind words.

@DadTwoGirls: Thank you – I appreciate the kind words.

@lookingforward: As a high school senior, I was very interested in pursuing a career in investing. I hoped to do something along the lines of financial planning and advising clients on financial decisions.

When I started studying finance at Georgetown, it became apparent that our curriculum merely taught modern finance concepts (CAPM, DCFs, etc.). This was not exclusive to Georgetown; other undergraduate business schools teach similar concepts. However, I feel that these concepts have little value in investing (for example, DCFs rely on far too many assumptions to be useful for security analysis – garbage in, garbage out). Thus, I became disinterested in investment banking and could not mentally commit to working 80-90 hour weeks to practice such concepts. Instead, I have used my spare time as a consultant to study investing concepts that I feel have more merit.

@intparent: I agree - while Ross would have offered similar job prospects as McDonough, it would have left my family in a better financial condition. I appreciate your comments regarding salary expectations. I am still young and learning the ropes of the working world, but will continue to keep this in mind moving forward.

I admire your motive for posting: What is this forum, except a place to learn from someone else’s knowledge and experience? Or to share one’s own hardwon wisdom?

I disagree with you, though. Your “peers from high school who selected fields like dentistry and medicine” did not take the lazy way out. The science and other classes a premed hopeful has to take to prepare for the MCAT and qualify for med school admission are the same in every undergraduate program, whether you think a premed can “game” the system or not. Yes, some schools have reputations for “weeding out” early, but no matter what, it’s the MCAT score that proves whether you’re ready, and whether you can qualify for med school.

GPA, “easy” or not, is only one piece: Candidates are judged on a combination of the standardized test, the recs, the interview, and the various practicum (ambulance corps, shadowing, research projects, or whatever.)

–Chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, and calculus are also not “easier” than finance classes.

So it’s not as if the premed-structured “easy” GPA will guarantee a spot in med school. It proves you have prepped for the test, understand the basics for the next level of schooling, and the science under the ultimate practicum: Caring for others, usually. If you’re aiming for cardiac surgeon, that would be, what, 10 years and $1,000,000 of training and education?

–Certainly a much longer, slower, more arduous road than your financial undergraduate education…AND by far more expensive!

You wouldn’t be making $65,000 on finishing undergrad premed coursework, either. If you majored in biology, for instance–well–that’s one of the worst paid BAs around!

Choosing a school that is equipped and otherwise supports your premed education is not taking “the easy way out.” It is taking the sensible first step.

Pointing out here, while I’m at it, that wildly successful finance people make a heck more jack than most doctors…and they’re not saving lives or taking the same risks. (Emergency on call is dangerous, you never know who will barge in.)

I think some of the grudging responses here are to your self-pity, which just doesn’t seem warranted. I’m not saying that your degree was easy, but you don’t prove you’re more worthy by putting Georgetown down and putting your high school classmates’ premed coursework down.

You’ve had many advantages and a comfier road than most: Someone else paid for your education, and Gtown is hardly a prison camp.

–Though I am very empathetic to you and other young people who are trying to find secure financial footing, which is a big challenge in life.

But it’s far easier for people like you than for most.

Maybe it’s time for you to notice others more respectfully?

I think in time you will feel differently about your college and career path. You are obviously a hard worker who will continue to be successful. If anything, I think you are too hard on yourself. You are doing very well and should be proud. This is JMHO but things in life play out how they were meant to be. I think you should stop lamenting your Georgetown decision and know that while the reason may not be apparent to you now, you were meant to go to Georgetown.

As an aside, if you ever give up business perhaps writing is for you. I enjoyed the way you wrote your tale.

Things are rarely what they seem. It is true that in many circles, it is believed that a more prestigious school is a springier trampoline to fancier places. And in s handful of cases it is.

What you have found is that there are a lot of paths that lead to the same place. This can be disappointing when you thought you’d picked a path with a unique destination, but there is liberation here too. You are young and smart and can go pretty much anywhere from here. Trust me, I have had friends that left medicine for business and vice versa, friends who moved from finance to the foreign service, layers who became screenwriters, etc.

Really focus on figuring out what matters to you and what you like to do. Do the job you have really well, and learn everything you can from it (including management skills.)

And mostly, now that you have found that the journey isn’t simply about the destination, pay attention to the experience. And don’t regret the past. You are kind to share your experience here - it may help someone else - but you can only move forward and grow from what you’ve learned. In fact, that mid tier consulting firm may be a gem…

Top tier education does not guarantee a lucrative job when you graduate What it gives you is a good foundation to be all you can be. It is still up to you to work hard and figure out what career is best suited for you. You are only 1.5 year out, life is long, I am pretty certain you will change your career a few times. Your Georgetown education will help you pivot. You may be envious of your friends who are on their way to become doctors because of their potential income, but doctors are not making as much money as they used to and the cost of medical school continues to go up. What if 5+ years later they decide medicine isn’t for them? One of my kid is going into law, I am concerned about the cost and her changing her mind later. Fortunately, she could use her law knowledge to go into other careers.

I started in finance (capital markets) and that’s where my older daughter now. Finance is a huge business - there is lending, debt issuance, securitization, sales & trading, and there are middle office, back office, compliance, legal, technology, finance…to support each line of business. I worked many years as a quant person doing securitization and derivatives of those securities. I spent a lot of time working on models and used my math major heavily. My daughter is in corporate bond. Even though she was also a math major, her job isn’t as quantitative, but more client facing.

My 30+ years career went from being a quant (individual contributory) to chief technology officer (managing hundreds of people) to big data (small advance technologist). I had to learn a lot of skills on the job because I often “did things where no men had done before.” :slight_smile: What enabled me to pivot and think critically was my education. It taught me how to be a good problem solver, but it was my own hard work that got me where I am today.

I don’t know what my older daughter will end up doing 5+ years from now. She has been with the same bank since she graduated. She started with a base of 75K (standard pay for an analyst) to what your parents making now. Her firm is seeing other skills she has and is grooming her for positions outside of what she is doing now. She is going to have to decide if she wants to be more quantitative or more of a generalist.

OP - take time to figure out what you want to do. Don’t use what you are making as a benchmark on whether your education was worth it. It is what you do with it matters, and it is not necessary how much money you make. As a parent, I didn’t pay 250k+ on each kid’s college education (plus private school tuitions from K-12) so I could get ROI. What I want is for them to have a productive and happy life.

Thanks for telling your story. It’s not an uncommon story, however. Here’re what I observed in your case and other similar situations:

  1. Business major is generally among the easiest. Undergraduate business degrees are generally not very useful (Wharton may be the only exception), so you shouldn’t have a very high expectation.

  2. Six-figure starting salary is generally only available in some sub-sectors of finance and high tech, and you almost have to graduate from one of very elite schools. Georgetown and UMich are not among them, perhaps unfairly. And to earn that salary, you’d have to work that 80-hour week, whether in finance or high tech, at least in your first couple of years. You have to decide whether it’s worthwhile even if you can get in.

  3. Medical careers require more time and financial commitment upfront, but they’re not difficult. You don’t have to be a genius but you do have to have a passion.

  4. I sense the problem is that you don’t seem to have a passion. Getting a decent financial return on your parents’ investment on your behalf is not a passion. You have to do things you’re passionate about, and hopefully, your’re skilled at. Otherwise you won’t do them well.