I think this falls under personal preference. I went to football games every now and then, just to hang out, but I would have been perfectly fine without them. People find “fun” in a bunch of different ways – spectator sports that unify a campus are fun for some, and boring / irrelevant for others.
Years ago there was a poster named Hawkette who was practically obsessed with the notion that spectator sports made a campus more fun, and she rabidly pushed Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, Vanderbilt and to a lesser extent Northwestern over the Ivy League because she personally found that kind of culture to be fun.
@MiddleburyDad2@Pizzagirl
Hopefully bragging rights are not the goal of parents sending kids to any college. In fact, parents who brag in person about their kids are a bore. Can be a real buzzkill at a party.
Now, on this CC website, I think it’s a little OK to “humbly brag anonymously,” because others come here seeking honest advice and comparative stats of kids to get a sense of the college competition out there, at all levels. While the title of this “elite” thread was a little off-putting, @DHMchicago ‘s message is truthful. Not all alumni children are going to be accepted to their parents’ colleges.
Yes, plenty of scholar athletes, I have zero issue with that. And yes, sports adds to the college experience. And in cases, sports can be self-supporting, not a cost center (or relatively not much.) It’s not sports I begrudge.
Go Bruins. But they have this academic issue, no?
@Pizzagirl Sounds like I might have liked Hawkette. I also prefer those schools you mentioned over the Ivies, personally. (Except maybe Notre Dame - too cold.) And, I do usually get bored by football, except at college games, where I can watch the excited kids on the field and in the stands, drink beer, and generally relax. Of course, the weather at USC made any event pleasant!
Actually, it’s only been a year, but my memory is bad. We weren’t allowed to drink beer in the stands at USC. That was during the tailgates outside the stadium. I guess I drank diet coke or water at the game. Still fun…
Elite admissions colleges presumably have plenty of leeway here, since many applicants who have no real chance of admission (other than due to athletic recruiting or such) still have high enough academic credentials that indicate that they are likely to do well in college.
At the other end of the scale, there are schools like University of Mississippi, which auto-admits Mississippi residents at the NCAA minimum academic standards (this includes non-athletes), and auto-admits non-residents at somewhat higher standards (see [here](http://admissions.olemiss.edu/applying-to-ole-miss/freshmen/)). It is not like University of Mississippi is bending its admission standards very much (or at all for Mississippi residents) to admit recruited athletes, but it is likely that some of those admitted (recruited athlete or not) will struggle at college work.
Some know I defend some admissions. I know, eg, that not all low SES kids are at an academic, extracurricular, or thinking level disadvantage. But I see some athletes get (no surprise to anyone here) a pull despite the weaknesses. Not all athletes. Just some. I don’t see the equivalent to “see what the coach wants” when it comes to other hooks. Ivy.
Question to Parents: How do you feel about donating to your colleges after your own child got rejected? I have been a faithful low donor to Duke/Fuqua since grad school graduation, but my warm feelings toward the school have diminished a bit since my son was rejected this summer. Is there any reason to keep donating, just in case one of my boys ever wants to go there for grad school? Or do these schools even care about those low dollar amounts? I donated before in thanks for my degree from Duke and because I like the school. But, now, while I still think Duke is a great university, I would ONLY be donating because of the small chance that my kids might like to go there someday.
I posed this question to one of my close UVA friends, and she said that she would keep donating to UVA, even if her children were rejected, because she enjoyed her own time there so much. Her child and mine were both accepted to UVA and both rejected by Duke this year. But, she is not a Duke alum, so she is obviously not in the same mindset about Duke as I have been.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO don’t disagree entirely with your post, but don’t underestimate the amount of fun kids have at sporting events at small schools. I’m biased, but the NESCAC has some fun rivalries, and I’ve found that the level of support across all sports and women’s sports in particular is higher at many small schools than it is at big ones.
You can hear a pin drop at some Pac 12 women’s soccer games, which often involve some of the best athletes in the world. When Middlebury women’s soccer plays Bates, people show up and they’re into it.
But, of course, nothing competes with the spectacle of Saturday big-time football. If that’s a value, the SEC starts to look awfully attractive. As a fan, I like it a lot. As a parent, eh, I’m happy my kids have what they have. You can keep the Auburn and LSU experience.
Donating after my kid got rejected? Not that any donation I’ve ever made has been remotely meaningful (I think I gave $25 this year and there have been plenty of years I gave nothing), but no, you reject my kid, you certainly won’t see another penny from me.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO , coach K wants to beat North Carolina. Everyone wants both - smarts and talent - but don’t kid yourself - there are always players on that roster who don’t otherwise belong at Duke. They get their fair share of the Stanford athlete, but even the academies and the Ivy League make significant compromises in athletic recruiting.
@MiddleburyDad2 I can definitely see how sports at a small school would be fun. Smaller, supportive environment. I have several friends who have kids at and recently graduated from Middlebury. Two of the boys, very smart, played for the football team. My second son (NOT an athlete) was quite interested in Lehigh and Bucknell, and I got the sense that rivalry with Lafayette, etc in the Patriot League was fierce.
And, you are right, women’s sports at most big schools do not seem to be supported by the fans. Seemed the same way in high school too. Weren’t most of the fans at the girls’ games adoring parents and boyfriends, or wannabe boyfriends?
Am not an SEC fan myself, but I know a lot of people who are. They sure are more loyal to their football than I am to Ivy League hockey.
As someone who’s watched a few thousand hours of ESPN, I have to chime in here. I’m a supporter of the average scholar-athlete, but colleges who have big-time basketball or football programs sold their souls to the devil a long time ago - even Duke, which has a cleaner program than most.
Last I heard, the average SAT for the Duke basketball team was below 980. Sean Dockery, who was a much hyped recruit 10+ years ago, struggled mightily to hit his NCAA requirement of ACT 17, or about SAT 850 (out of 1600). And that’s just what we know about. God only knows what’s being covered up. Fortunately at Duke they only reach so low for a dozen or so players a year, but dollars to dumplings there were basketball and football admits to Duke who struggled to read at an 8th grade level. In this era of one-and-done, it wouldn’t surprise me if there were players who didn’t even pretend to go to class.
By comparison the legacy admissions preference is pretty small.
As the thread flawlessly switched from legacy bashing to athletes bashing let me mention that Ivy athletes usually do very well after graduation and are usually generous to their schools. These schools know that. http://www.iviesinrio2016.com/2016-olympians
Two points to consider about atheletes at the Division 1 level. First, in the more popular sports, even at the Ivy level, you are talking about kids who are among the top few percent at their craft among hundreds of thousands of participating high schoolers. At the big time, Power Five schools where you tend to see the most variation among academic standards, the kids are truly the elite of the elite. I have to believe that kids who succeed at that level in other endeavors, be that music, art, drama or what have you, receive significant consideration as well. You have to realize we are talking about something well beyond being in the all state orchestra or having a couple leads in local plays. Getting a scholarship to play football at Notre Dame, or basketball at Duke, is far more difficult, on a percentage basis, than earning admission to HYPSM et al. Second, the NCAA is a money making racket, plain and simple. For kids who are truly elite, the path to the professional ranks runs almost exclusively through college athletics, whether the kid has any real academic interests or not. The kids are truly trapped by the system.
Now, whether Duke, Notre Dame, Vandy, Northwestern, etc should cede a certain number of admissions slots to the athletic department is a different question. But it is awful hard to blame the kids.
“Question to Parents: How do you feel about donating to your colleges after your own child got rejected?”
Returning to legacy rejection issues: Anyone else have any thoughts on my post #586 above. Pizzagirl seemed to feel a bit the same way I do, but is there any downside to stopping those small annual donations in the event that one of my kids wanted to apply later to my alma mater for grad school? Do grad schools care about small donor alums?
I never gave money to Harvard with any expectation that I was improving my kids chances of being accepted. They accepted one and rejected the other. I was not particularly surprised by either result.
@mathmom Do you still donate to Harvard? My first son did not even apply to Duke, so I was not giving $ for my kids either. But, when the second one did apply and then got rejected, I started thinking about this - especially when I received my quarterly pledge reminder around the same time in June that my son got the final rejection notice from Duke. I will honor that pledge, but am not sure about beyond that.
@suzyQ7 Good point. Thank you. There are so many more dire causes to worry about. Been giving to Duke for over 25 years. Time for a change. Maybe stop donations to all of our colleges now that we are paying $70K/yr for one.