It’s a different strategy for college admissions. Instead of competing head-to-head in a limited number of academic disciplines, they’re diversifying their children’s skill set, as well as improving their children’s long-term health. The admissions preferences for recruited athletes are vast.
Methinks Much2learn should have labeled “Lazy Parents” as Non-Tiger Parents".
Not every parent or kid plans everything as a strategy for college admissions. Some kids just live their lives, trying to the best of their ability to do OK in HS and aim for Big State U or selective but not super selective nice college. They do theater or sports or dance because they want to, not to enhance their college resume.
Lol…nothing lazy about spending your day driving the kids all over the place, traveling to every match/game, doing all of the volunteering and fund raising…and then making sure they have time to complete homework and get enough sleep for the next day… 
I read a bit of this thread and I’ve friends both from competitive HSs (think TJHSST type) and neither of them maxed out either way - one didn’t even do Calc BC, just AB and she is doing quite well as a STEM major at my school. I used to attend another HS in the states where everyone took like 14-15 APs and I know a kid who definitely did not and is still happily at my school, so I think admissions officers must look beyond absolute GPA/scores somewhat regularly. All the people I know are interesting and fun to be around and I’m glad to know them.
This district sounds miserable. For the record, I (an asian female) took all of 5 APs that were taught iffily at my gifted charter school (International), including Calc BC in 10th grade because they had nothing else, had multiple free periods in junior/senior year and spent more time doing research than in school and I got in to my school. At least academically, I’m glad I went there over big IB/AP schools in my city. I feel like I didn’t have the maturity (and my school did not have the teachers) to appreciate courses taught with a college level of rigor. I got some solid skills that I could build on. Other students at my school, who stayed in country, had plenty of free time though.
If what much2learn is referring to is parents who believe snowflake’s sport and/or instrument should take precedence over school, I won’t be the one to disagree. I can recall wincing when I read Friday Night Lights and noted many examples of kids who were taking easy classes and/or doing poorly in them because they didn’t want school to get in the way of the football season.
Certainly, there are some cases where school doesn’t matter all that much. Maybe snowflake is the next Yo-Yo Ma, and doesn’t need to take AP Calculus to succeed in his/her chosen field of endeavor. Perhaps a handful of kids shouldn’t worry about getting a C in pre-algebra, because Coach K will get them into Duke. I used to know a kid who was a national champion in our shared sport, and so I’m less concerned that he was reading 3 years below his grade level than I would otherwise be. But they are rare exceptions.
Most kids in HS know that their chosen sport/instrument/other activity isn’t likely to become their career. From there, it follows that most kids’ educations - whether the endgame is university or a vocational school - should take precedence over other activities, if they’re to have decent opportunities later in life. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer or a Wall Street broker, and most people don’t want to be any of those things. On the other hand, few people want to work for minimum wage the rest of their lives. Today, many high school graduates (or dropouts) have found themselves doing just that for an extended period of time, even in a tight job market - and there’s little reason to think that’ll change in the foreseeable future, unless automation supplants some minimum wage jobs altogether.
It’s a parent’s prerogative to let their kids put sport, socializing, or hobbies ahead of schoolwork. Unfortunately, the kids are the ones who’ll face severely curtailed opportunities later in life. Parents who refuse to acknowledge that fact, are afraid to administer a dose of tough love, or are surprised to discover that the grades their child has after 3.5 years of the above aren’t enough for MIT, are hardly to be applauded.
@SlackerMomMD “Interesting. I never knew it was a thing to call parents (or people, in general) with different priorities or values “lazy”.”
I am not sure why it is okay to label people concerned about education as “Tiger Parents”, but when I suggest that the opposite is “lazy and uninvolved parents” that is offensive. Apparently “Tiger Parents” is acceptable to the PC police, but the opposite group prefers to e called “parents with different priorities.” lol
@Mom2and “Really muchto learn? Every parent of an average kid is a lazy parent? Every parent of a kid that plays multiple sports is a lazy parent? That may not be what you meant, but it certainly is implied.”
Perhaps you inferred it. I did not imply, and don’t think, that there are only two groups of parents. That would be silly.
@Mom2and “Why shouldn’t a school offer AP studio art or AP music theory? What makes those subjects less acceptable to the kids who excel there than BC calc or APUSH?”
I am not opposed to AP studio art, or AP music theory, and don’t think that those are less acceptable. I am saying that, for example, I sometimes see students taking over 15 APs. Often they think they are creating an advantage for themselves, when in reality, they are only stressing themselves out and ruining their high school experience. If they have a real interest in AP Art History, then I think that it is a great course, but if they are taking it to try to pad a transcript, and impress an ADCOM with 17 APs, I think it is a poor decision.
@Periwinkle “It’s a different strategy for college admissions. Instead of competing head-to-head in a limited number of academic disciplines, they’re diversifying their children’s skill set, as well as improving their children’s long-term health. The admissions preferences for recruited athletes are vast.”
Yes, I agree that it is a strategy. Two of my kids were recruited. My point is that, if you have time to spend 20 - 30 hours per week on your sport, you should not be typically be complaining about the demands of academics.
“These days, ambitious kids study so intensely they have little time to read for pleasure.” (Or maybe they just don’t want to, because they aren’t self-motivated and there is no A in it for them). I wonder whether they just lie when they are asked to list all the books they read outside of school last year or if they just leave it blank, or how often the topic comes up in the interviews. I certainly would ask. I think this kind of thing is overlooked by the tiger parents who then come on this site ranting about why Johnny whose SAT scores were 50 or 100 points lower got in and stole their kid’s place. Maybe Johnny read some interesting books and had something thoughtful to say about them, instead of attending Saturday SAT prep school.
Grade-level acceleration in particular subjects is the best practical solution for students who are far ahead. It shouldn’t cost any more instructional money, though it may cost something for transportation if there are different schools involved.
“This might work in well-to-do districts, but I don’t think it’s feasible in middle or low income districts. Teachers’ contracts and state laws pose challenges. Our teachers’ contract limits the number of classes they’re required to teach in a row, the number of students they have to teach per year, and the number of sections they have to teach of each course.” I don’t see why this is an issue. You aren’t educating more students. You are just putting them in different classes. Ditto for offering more AP classes. Our AP classes typically have close to 30 students in them. How is that not economical? If kids can’t take AP psych, maybe they will take child development. If they can’t take AP Economics maybe they will take personal finance or accounting. Where is the cost savings to the school?
@notverysmart “If what much2learn is referring to is parents who believe snowflake’s sport and/or instrument should take precedence over school, I won’t be the one to disagree. I can recall wincing when I read Friday Night Lights and noted many examples of kids who were taking easy classes and/or doing poorly in them because they didn’t want school to get in the way of the football season.”
Exactly. Other posters seem to have lost the context of the article this thread is about: a high school where parents are complaining about, and trying to reduce the level of academic rigor.
I think it is fine for parents and students to prioritize athletics or other ECs, but why penalize the families who prioritize academics? How would they feel if the Tiger Parents pushed to reduce the time spent on sports? Both groups can prioritize and make their own decision, but shouldn’t try to impair the other group.
I just don’t think it is reasonable to drive your kids to skip sleep and social activities to get some possible advantage of admission … so I am saying … there is the option to just not do it … send your kid to a local flagship or a good private university, depending on what you can afford (and yes, you may have to pay 25-35K for the local flagship so save some money up).
Some kids don’t have to study 10 hours a day to take AP classes (they really aren’t that hard … for someone well prepared in math due to a good math track … or someone with good reading and writing skills) … and don’t need tutors and don’t need summer classes. if your kid gets a 4 or 5 on Calc BC after 2 years of high school calc is that really something that required not sleeping ? If your kid gets a 4 or 5 on CoGoPo … was that really that hard for them ?
I think it is the attempt to make your child a snowflake that is the issue … but parents are legally allowed and sometimes encouraged to do that … whether it is having them on travel soccer at age 10 or having them in summer math classes and private music lessons …
There is both a snooty intellectual bias here and a snooty anti-intellectual bias here. The sports scholarship mythology is about as powerful as the taking 15 AP classes and $3000 SAT prep class mythology … neither one gets you into a school unless your child is talented … motivated … and maybe unstressed enough by the gauntlet you put them through to actually talk normally in an interview.
And … does it really hurt your smart but not genius level child if there are some really hardworking driven kids (and families) in your school district. Would they really have any chance at the few spots at MIT that are reserved for not so brilliant … or are those kids who have built a super computer in their basement, cured a rare cancer, etc.
Chasing the prestigious college dream with a not genius student … it’s not that fantastic.
if your kid got into a great school without superhuman effort … well then they really belong there … and will hopefully make the best of this opportunity.
PS - reading has taken a big hit due to the Internet … although reading good web sites or CNN could be just as educational. I think may be writing is worse … but then again I work with many, many people who cannot write a really coherent email, or describe well what they are doing …
@PickOne1 I suppose I didn’t do a good job of getting this across in my post, but I do know that athletic recruits to top schools are by no means dullards. The example of Duke, where even recruited athletes tend to have a fairly high Academic Index, was probably not the best.
A better illustration of the phenomenon may be Big State University in Football-Loving State, where admissions standards may well be bent more than a little to allow a very promising recruit to matriculate. Take FSU, where some athletes apparently lack the reading comprehension to make sense of the state’s laws. Although these athletes are rare exceptions, for every one of them there are hundreds who see football as their ticket to college.
Anyway, my main point isn’t that these kids are dumb. It’s that quite a few parents entertain their child’s dream of starting for Texas A&M, allowing them to slack off in school in order to focus on sport (substitute any university-activity combo you want here). When it’s clear the child isn’t going to be competitive in college football/music/basket-weaving, then letting them neglect school is doing them a disservice.
My problem here is that you equate Tiger Parenting with “people concerned about education.” I don’t think the commenters you have issue with would agree with that. Tiger Parenting is one kind of “concern about education.” I care greatly about education; I work in it and so does my H. But I am nothing like a socalled Tiger Parent and never wished to be. By no means is that the only way to “care” about education. I’d say it is more about caring about goals, while for me, education is caring about a lifelong process, not a product.
“My problem here is that you equate Tiger Parenting with “people concerned about education.” I don’t think the commenters you have issue with would agree with that. Tiger Parenting is one kind of “concern about education.” I care greatly about education; I work in it and so does my H. But I am nothing like a socalled Tiger Parent and never wished to be. By no means is that the only way to “care” about education. I’d say it is more about caring about goals, while for me, education is caring about a lifelong process, not a product.”
Much of the problem with the phrase “Tiger Parent” is that it is a lot like the term “Red Neck.” Everyone knows they exist, but no one thinks it is them. lol
I agree. FSU is shameful in that regard.
@coolweather In my school (which neighbors and has the same demographic as WWP) most AP classes require a summer assignment. This is because we are “late to the game” since school starts for us after Labor Day in the Northeast, but AP exams are still universally in May. Others taking the May exam have several weeks on us. I don’t have a problem with it, and if I did, I would choose not to take APs.
The kids that are paying to take classes in the summer so they can skip ahead to higher level classes, trust me, that pressure comes from their PARENTS I promise you! It needs to stop! EVERYBODY is not and should not be going to an Ivy. In my town as well, we have a group of parents who want our school to STANDARDIZE education, reduce APs offered, among other things. How about just don’t push your kid to take everyone of them!
We have well tested prerequisites in our school, and they are very accurate in my opinion. Every year, there are parents who try to fight the cutoff grade to get their kid into AP whatever. When it happens, rarely is the kid successful. My sister is a sophomore and has a friend who is a regular, smart girl. Her parents want her to be a pediatrician, so if she does not take AP Chem AND AP bio together in 10th grade, this will not happen apparently. She did not have the math grade to take thses classes, however the parents pushed and pushed until the school acquiesced to the demand and now she is getting Cs, so what is the point. Her parents consantly meet with teachers to criticize their teaching, brxause it MUST be the teacher’s fault! In my school, if you are not in mostly APs you are looked at like a failure brcause this is how a majority of kids in my town have been raised! When I tell kids in my APs the schools I have applied to or have gotten into, they look at me with such pity like I just told them my grandma died!
Your experience is not the same as everyone else’s. We had to fight to get two of our kids in honors/higher grade classes when they not recommended/tested for them. Both received A’s in these classes, and stayed on the higher track.
My objection is that “lazy” is an inaccurate term. Having kids in lots of activities generally takes a lot of a parent’s time and energy–certainly before kids are driving it does. There’s nothing lazy about it. Heck, kids’ activities generally require more effort by parents than schoolwork does.
My objection is that “lazy” is an inaccurate term. Having kids in lots of activities generally takes a lot of a parent’s time and energy–certainly before kids are driving it does. There’s nothing lazy about it. Heck, kids’ activities generally require more effort by parents than schoolwork does.
Actually, much2learn, lots of people take pride in being Tiger Parents. Such as the woman who wrote the book in that name. Ad hominems don’t make for very good debate.
I think it’s safe to say I was never one–the obvious evidence being I never once hired a tutor or signed my kids up for summer academic programs, I let them quit things they didn’t like (music, sports, etc), actually thought that doing nothing was good for them, never arranged for any sort of test prep (not even prep books, much less tutoring), and generally treated them as kids. What I did do was encourage reading, lots of time outdoors, and asking of questions.
Pretty much the antithesis of Tiger Parenting. Again, I ask you why you think that that is the only way one can encourage education.
Agree with Garland. There is a lot of room between Tiger Parent (which, in accordance with the book of the same name means a parent who has super high expectations and is on top of his or her kids to continually achieve at an almost perfect level) and lazy un-involved parent. To me, the point of this thread is not that parents are complaining about and trying to reduce academic rigor, but about parents and school personnel trying to reduce the pressure students are feeling because so many of them are doing a lot of academics outside the classroom, which, in turn, puts pressure on other kids that want to do well to do the same. Teachers, students and some parents have noted that some students are feeling excessive pressure.