I should clarify that the summer practices she missed were the ones before Aug. 10 and supposedly were not mandatory so long as you train which she did.
Our magnet school didn’t give credit to courses taken over the summer or at other institutions. They assigned no summer work. The school year was a tough grind, but the summer was downtime. They regularly place 12 to 20 in H or Y.
I don’t know how you can argue that WWP isn’t dumbing down their academics. They used to put the top 10 percent in the hardest math course and they plan to change it to the top 30 percent.
@TheGFG, what explanation does your school give for excluding interested kids from AP classes? And for turning out kids who can’t even earn 5’s after paying for all those extra summer classes that other schools don’t find necessary to prepare their students?
Most of our summer practices are student-run (coaches not being paid to coach all summer) so there would be a logistical problem if the team captains are not present during the summer.
The elementary school students you mentioned are a very sad case, but I don’t see how the school district policies can prevent families from abusing their kids. Maybe refer them to protective services?
We must be a complete slacker parents because we’ve never done private music lessons, nor have we ever done summer/saturday/cram/prep/tutoring for our kids.
Well, the article I quoted from up the thread stated, “Of the 1,541 students in fourth and fifth grade in 2014, 442 earned perfect math scores on state standardized tests, while only 129 were in the A&E program.”
442 out of 1,541 = 28%.
Expanding access to qualified students is not “dumbing down.” I believe the original article stated the district is at present 65% Asian as well, so odds are the vast majority of the 30% will also be Asian.
It makes no sense to build a cadre of superstars by exclusion. Following such exclusionary practices only feed the paranoia and hysteria. I’m sure the tutors and private cram schools are glad for the business, but the public schools should not aid and abet the crowding out of the less affluent by the more affluent.
It’s like that in our district too. Kids whose families can afford summer programs get honors courses, places in the orchestra, and spots on the athletic teams. Kids from low income families have a harder time accessing these opportunities.
A student who wants to take honors or AP classes in our high school has to have parents who know which classes they have to take in middle school to qualify for placement in the high school classes. And then they have to be willing and able to convince guidance to give them one of the limited spaces. If they can afford outside courses, it’s much easier to secure a spot.
Unless a child is athletically gifted, if s/he wants to play high school sports the parents need to lay out several hundred dollars/year (per child) for travel teams starting when they enter kindergarten. Even the summer rec teams are heavily populated with kids whose parents are paying hundreds of dollars/year for the year round teams and/or private lessons. If parents don’t know, or can’t afford, to start their kids out in preschool, the kids won’t be competitive in middle or high school.
I wouldn’t assume colleges will take all those AP credits. If they count toward the credits needed for the student’s high school diploma, some colleges won’t accept them.
The money districts are spending on AP courses should first be spent on providing an appropriate education to their special ed students. Whatever remains could go toward providing free college courses for other students. However, their first duty is to provide an appropriate high school education to all their high school students. I’m not convinced that’s happening in most districts.
@Periwinkle Then they need a better test. 442 students are not at the same ability level. The dual track method really doesn’t work well for math. It holds the brightest students back. Math should be taught on three or four levels.
If the lowest math group thinks they are dumb that is an administration problem. They need to rethink the way they teach and make it more fun. DD’s friend was in the lowest match group through middle school and is a statistics minor in college. She just learns math differently which is why should be more individualized and not taught in a dual track method.
My son is a recent CHEME graduate of an elite level school. The CHEME curriculum was such that those who took the most changeling classes in HS absolutely had an advantage over those who did not have similar backgrounds. Several of the students in my son’s class took Calculus BC, differential equations, and other advanced classes in HS. They were best positioned to handle the demanding CHEME curriculum. This curriculum included taking honors physical chemistry during the sophomore year without having completed linear algebra. He took CS classes without any background in programming which was a significant disadvantage since several of his classmates had written code as a hobby. He was also required to take multiple approved graduate CHEME level classes. The implication that some are making that having an advanced HS background is not conducive to critical thinking is odd to me.
My son never complained about his disadvantaged situation. He struggled with honors physical chemistry but buckled down and did ok. He also struggled with his first CS class mightily as his worst grade in college from this class. He struggled with his second CS class until he figured how to teach himself. His programming skills are now considered top notch. He also performed very well in his graduate (5XXX and 6XXX) classes. There are many paths to becoming a high performing STEM person. In our case, there were hidden benefits that my son acquired from his journey. Without the 11/12 AP classes taken in HS, I am not sure that he would have been as competitive at his college. Success in his field can be achieved without spending any money on private tutors if the individual has the drive.
Unfortunately not all AP credits are equal to college courses.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/ap-classes-are-a-scam/263456/
Educators have been deploring the stupidity of AP teaching in public high schools.
http://cepa.stanford.edu/content/when-testing-trumps-learning-ap-courses-have-come-be-misused
How refreshing to see a Superintendent trying to take a stand against the ridiculous pressure our kids are being subjected to in many of our cities. I see kids in my psychotherapy practice who are subjected to the relentless pressure brought upon them by well-meaning parents and teachers; it is good to know there are educators out there who will take a stand to dial things down. That does not mean “dumbing down.” There are more ways to learn and grow then endless AP classes, prep classes, extra classes, etc. And where exactly are all these kids racing to get to? What happens to them? There are many miserable people out there who went to elite colleges and never learned how to think creatively, to bounce back from disappointments and to enjoy the learning process themselves.
The rat race continues for these students after college. I interviewed an ivy league educated grad (happened to be Asian) and she had worked for a year at her first job before moving to a second job. She was in that second job 3 months and was already interviewing with me for a third. When asked about her reasons for wanting to leave job 2 after 3 months, she said she wanted to keep challenging herself in the industry and was ready to try something new. Job 2 was at a very prestigious firm in the industry and was not entry level. It feels many of these super achievers are always vying for that next big thing. It would be nice if they just buckled down and focused on the moment - and their life now vs. the never ending goal of a bigger and better brass ring.
“How refreshing to see a Superintendent trying to take a stand against the ridiculous pressure our kids are being subjected to in many of our cities. I see kids in my psychotherapy practice who are subjected to the relentless pressure brought upon them by well-meaning parents and teachers; it is good to know there are educators out there who will take a stand to dial things down. That does not mean “dumbing down.” There are more ways to learn and grow then endless AP classes, prep classes, extra classes, etc. And where exactly are all these kids racing to get to? What happens to them? There are many miserable people out there who went to elite colleges and never learned how to think creatively, to bounce back from disappointments and to enjoy the learning process themselves.”
This clearly is a dig at elite college graduates which I am not. Your statement that these graduates cannot think creatively has no basis.
It seems there is a tendency to mention the sad failures of some kids who are trying to keep up with the high-achievers without any mention of those that are able to take the challenging classes and do just fine, of which I would think are the majority. As several have posted, there are kids that are not challenged in class and are bored. The schools should be able to offer something for these kids too.
There’s a difference between kids who needs an extra challenge because they are so naturally bright that the material is too easy or being taught at too slow a pace for them, and kids who find the class too easy because they’ve already taken it.
If you’ve taken an equivalent course over the summer or at a cram school, the way to “challenge” yourself is to move on to the next course in the sequence, not to retake material you’ve already learned.
The smart kids should be offered more challenging classes, but that doesn’t mean the public school needs to accommodate students who want to take AP calculus in 7th grade and then college math at taxpayer expense for 5 years.
And unless you want to assert Caucasians are genetically inferior to Asians and morally deficient to boot, then I think a school district like mine needs to justify why, when 65% of the student body is not Asian, Asians make up 90% or higher of the students in our AP classes. My kids are usually one of only two non-Asians in all their classes. One reason is that smart kids who have not been taking math outside the elementary school won’t score high enough on the placement test to be put in the advanced track and won’t be eligible for AP’s come high school. My daughter did not score high enough–i had to fight to get her in. Yet, she got a high A in algebra in 7th grade. More capable kids than she were shut out due to this system.
Sorry, I can’t seem to edit the typos above. I had to “fight” not flight, for ex.
Skipping part of the curriculum because some students have taken the course elsewhere is not the same as “dumbing down.” A school district should not penalize bright, capable students whose parents couldn’t afford to put them in cram schools during the summer. A school shouldn’t presume that a student has the necessary academic background for a course unless the school system itself provided that academic background, during the school year, for free. If a school teaches Spanish I, it shouldn’t then skip to Spanish IV and penalize the students who didn’t study Spanish in the summer. Same for math or chemistry: no fair skipping the prerequisites and forcing students who want to move ahead to pay for summer courses or tutoring.
@ apprenticeprof I agree
@TheGFG I think it was your daughter in the chemistry class with everyone who had taken the summer course of organic chemistry and the teacher skipped over some material. I think everyone would agree that is incorrect and should not happen. I do think that if a kid is able to take accelerated classes the schools should provide them these classes, within reason. Some kids are not challenged in school and are bored and actually want to be challenged. Many of these kids are also able to have plenty of free time to play sports, etc.
I think the US is incredibly lucky to have the Asian kids that are excelling. If you look at the winners of most academic competitions you will see mainly Asian names which is probably why in your school district the % of Asians in APs exceeds their % of the population. Unless people think it is only the “US Asians” that are at these high-levels then I would hope many could see the benefits of having them from a US competitiveness perspective. Again, some of the high-achievers may be miserable but from our local experience most of these kids are quite happy.
At least in our area there are many challenging opportunities but it is almost like you have to be part of a secret society to find out about them. The internet has made it much easier to find things thankfully but the schools could do a much better job I think.