<p>He was waitlisted at Princeton, so his ECs must have been good enough. Also got into Yale, even though he was rejected at Harvard, MIT, Penn and Stanford. </p>
<p>You can’t make any generalizations in super-selective admissions. The same application can get you into H, but rejected at Y (D’s situation). You look at the H acceptance and say, “Good enough test scores, ECs, GPA, essays, etc. to get you into an Ivy college.” You look at the Y rejection and you say, “Must be missing something–lack of ECs, test scores could have been higher, essays probably are problematic, etc.” The same application!</p>
<p>The best you can say is that Yale was looking for an apple to balance out their fruit salad and you were an orange.</p>
<p>I don’t envy Princeton trying to re-create the admissions season in question. A lot of time has passed and I’m guessing that copious notes weren’t taken at the time.</p>
<p>As to why sue Princeton and not the others? Princeton probably doesn’t have a graduate program in what he wants to study, perhaps?</p>
<p>I don’t know much about that applicant other than what is reported about him in the newspapers (hmmm, this sounds like a line from Will Rogers), but I know the federal Department of Education is still investigating his case and broadening the investigation, and I know that he was admitted to Yale as a freshman and to Harvard as a transfer student. I will be curious to see if there is some final report on the case at some future date by the Department of Education.</p>
“Good enough” doesn’t equate with “made the cut”. Top colleges tend to waitlist at least 3 times as many students as they admit – while there may be many outstanding students who make the waitlist, there are also students who are deemed qualified but definitely not up to the level of those who are offered admission in the first go round.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that waitlists are used for a variety of reasons. Among other things, they are often a source of full pay students when space opens up and the financial aid budget has been taxed to its limit. </p>
<p>My kids were waitlisted at several schools and in each case I could point out a specific deficit in the kids application that could account for why they were not admitted at the outset.</p>
<p>I’m quite sure that this figure is mistaken by a whole order of magnitude for the colleges I follow most closely, but perhaps you could mention the specific colleges you are talking about and link to their figures at some authoritative online source.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, it was just a rough number based on my memory of figures for particular school I’d seen in past admission cycles – but the number doesn’t matter, the point is the same: being on the waitlist does NOT mean that the person has “equal” qualifications to those who are admitted. Some may – but you can’t assume that because the person is on a waitlist that they were “good enough” for admission “but for” a random factor or some nefarious reason like discrimination.</p>
<p>A guy put on Princeton’s waiting list has a more than theoretical chance to get into Princeton’s entering class, and a guy who is admitted to Yale (and later to Harvard) has a more than typical level of readiness for a challenging residential research university.</p>
<p>But that doesn’t mean that he necessarily had equivalent qualifications, including intangible factors, to the students who were actually admitted to Princeton the year he was waitlisted. For example, maybe he won a big award in a regional contest, and maybe some other kid who was admitted to Princeton won a similar award in a an equivalent national contest. Nothing wrong with wining the regional contest – but obviously the national award means more. </p>
<p>Having a better than “theoretical chance” does NOT mean that his stats and profile fully match those who were admitted.</p>
<p>Hard to believe that a kid accepted to Yale didn’t have equivalent qualifications that could have gotten him accepted at Princeton, had he met some institutional need that Princeton had that year. But he didn’t fit the bill as someone that Princeton needed. </p>
<p>The DOE report will be interesting. Colleges are looking for diversity and do have needs and niches that need filling–and I believe that they can use race as a factor in their deliberations, as long as it does not constitute a quota. Do colleges use a cap on the % of Asians in any one class (for example, not more than 20%)? If so, is that a quota?</p>
<p>But that’s the point – we don’t know what the institutional need at Princeton was that year, or who the other applicants were. That he was waitlisted is not evidence of bias.</p>
<p>Agree that being waitlisted isn’t evidence of bias. </p>
<p>Princeton will have to try to re-create the choosing of that class for the inquiry. We’re talking about trying to remember what you did in late 2005-early 2006. Good luck to that endeavor! </p>
<p>Asian applicants have complained for years about discrimination in the college application process at super-selective schools. I can’t see such a college, for diversity reasons, choosing a class that was almost 50% Asian like some of the UCs are. Now with this case, the DOE will have a chance to look at the choosing process and see what does and doesn’t fly according to the regs.</p>
<p>Why would a kid who got into Yale care about filing a complaint against a college that deferred him and not the colleges that rejected him outright? This is obviously filed as a test case. But why choose Princeton?</p>
<p>There’s probably no reason to speculate about this. But I’ll note that the applicant came from New Jersey and may have had more information sources of all kinds familiar with the situation at Princeton when he raised the issue with the federal Department of Education. </p>
<p>I’d believe there is an Asian bias. Maybe not about ethnicities per se but about being too similar to too many other applicants (separate from ethnicity). You don’t have to spend too long on EC to discover clusters of similar profiles. Thus I’d venture to guess that most perfect SAT, math award winning, chess club playing, accomplished pianists from NJ are more likely to be rejected from Princeton, regardless of what their last name happens to be. Likewise, if he was applicant with a perfect SAT from Wyoming, who was a champion wrestler, did stand up comedy, and started his own lucrative landscaping business, and was Asian, he’d be in.</p>
<p>My bet is that Princeton will get off easily. No institution worth its weight would allow itself “exposed” to such charges. I am sure the investigators have children/grandchildren that the university can show some “love” to. Your political representatives don’t want to rock the boat either, not if they have children or grandchildren of their own.</p>
<p>For Jian Li, his gambit has paid off. He is now in Harvard. So, there is no real incentive for him to push the issue either. However, he must put in the appearance of trying. After all, his reputation was build on this case.</p>
<p>Personally, I am sure there is bias. Was it not the case that the Ivies had something against Jewish applications in the past? One thing I learned over the years is that human nature does not change, and I always suspect that is the reason why Shakespeare is still popular after all these years.</p>
<p>“Thus I’d venture to guess that most perfect SAT, math award winning, chess club playing, accomplished pianists from NJ are more likely to be rejected from Princeton, regardless of what their last name happens to be. Likewise, if he was applicant with a perfect SAT from Wyoming, who was a champion wrestler, did stand up comedy, and started his own lucrative landscaping business, and was Asian, he’d be in.”</p>
<p>That’s not an Asian bias, then, if the Asian with the more “interesting” credentials gets in. It’s a don’t-want-too-many-lookalikes bias.</p>
<p>He transferred from Yale to Harvard. If it was enough, he would not have done so. Personally I would have stay out of loyalty, but that’s just me. BTW, I am not suggesting that he is doing anything wrong. Not at all.</p>
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<p>Since this is a zero-sum game, what is bad for my competition is good for me. Surprising? No. Hypocritical? Yes.</p>
<p>I think we human beings are quite fascinating, don’t you think?</p>
Among Chinese that I know, Harvard is the place to be. Since he was already in at Yale, only getting into Harvard will improve his “standing” any. By filing this suit, he was able to 1) show that he is not a submissive Asian (make him more “interesting”, in the words of a previous poster) and 2) that he has concern for “equality of opportunity” of all Americans (motherhood and apple pie really).</p>
<p>So in helping others, he also helped himself, all the way into Harvard. Pretty brilliant if you ask me. (For some reason, baseball’s intentional unintentional walk comes to mind).</p>
<p>We must remember this is the same person who was rejected by Harvard earlier.</p>
<p>I remember there are naysayers here on CC saying that Jian has spoiled his future with such a suit. Clearly this is not the case, if acceptance into Harvard is any indication. </p>
<p>If he were Canadian, I would suggest that he should give the suit " a good old college try" but accept the inevitable loss “graciously”. I have no idea if this works on the American ruling class the way it would work in Canada.</p>
<p>Before anyone jumps me for using the word “hypocritical” in a previous post, I was thinking in terms of the French definition, the concealing of one’s true personality/intention.</p>