Rejected from my ED school. Should I change my application? Do I have a shot at any Ivies/T20s RD?

Applying to College
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This is what matters. You need a school where you can get admitted and afford. That’s all I ever have said. That’s part of but not all of fit. But it’s a main qualifier. I’m not sure if students truly know what a fit is or isn’t…a lot of that depends on visits, travels, talks with student ambassadors (which few do but OP should…it’s a must if you can’t get places). Truth is, I don’t know/we don’t know OPs hot buttons. Is it diversity? Open curriculum? Size? We know pedigree :slight_smile:

OP has GMU and VCU. If they are affordable and can provide a 4 year residential experience (op family makes 48k), then they’re great.

If the issue is % of AA students - VCU is about 20%. It’s also smaller - about 20k and urban. I don’t know how off campus rents would be.

GMU is a bit bigger. 27k. About 12% AA. Not sure if urban or suburban. And if OP can live home to save money.

I imagine rents in suburban Dc and city Richmond to be high but can’t say for sure.

Tuscaloosa is a large town/small city - an hour or so from Bham. It’s a lot 11% AA. 32k undergrads. Rents will be much less relative to others.

A city school like a VCU would be UAB. It’s known for its health sciences so with a cog sci desire it might work. It’s smaller - 13k undergrads. 25% AA. Direct costs are $41,160 - tuition, room, board. Looks like you’d get $21k off + $4k NMF. So a delta of $16k plus travel etc.

And again Bama may be the best deal but Tulsa is small like you want so loaded with intellect and last year reported 25% NMF. UTD. Maine. I know there’s more. You can find other safeties if you are dissatisfied with your list.

Tulsa is 2700 undergrads. 9:1 student do faculty. 39% students from multicultural background - they don’t break out. I really think you should at least check more into this one. It’s a full ride. 25% of students are NMF - so brilliance abounds. It’s what you want except it’s not in the Northeast. I would say the Tulsa city of yesteryear is not the city of today. The city is about 15% black.

Again I am not saying go to here or there. But applying gives you options. Too many kids start changing in march, April - and these type schools give you the outlet just in case.

If mom makes $48k if I read that right, short of savings or crazy scholarships, you won’t have much wiggle room - even in state I’d surmise (with living expense). These are called safeties for a reason. They are just in case - and you want to be prepared with something in case you need it

I’m cautious like that. Apply to Vassar, Wes, wherever. But those are still unlikely. Vassar btw - 4% AA - so I’d be cautious there actually - and want to ensure it’s a right fit. It’s less than half of Brown.

PS - in the case you can’t visit, you might reach out to admissions at any school - and ask to speak to a student ambassador. They will have them of various races, genders, etc. Right now you are pulling names or curriculums but I imagine as a black female, there’s so much more you want and need to know.

Hope for the best. Plan for the worst.

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This is a good point. We don’t know for sure what makes OP feel concerned about fit. That said, we’ve talked a lot about race but not so much about gender.

My LGBTQ+ kid is not applying to schools in any states where hostile legislation is in place or likely. I could see a woman—and particularly a Black woman, given disparities in health care outcomes—being similarly reticent about attending school in a state where her reproductive rights are severely curtailed. Virginia, the location of two of her safeties, although it has a Republican governor right now, is not one of those places; the state is purple (leaning blue) and has a Democratic legislature…largely in reaction fears about what the current Republican governor would do to reproductive rights with a Republican legislature.

Again, I’m not sure what OP’s specific concerns are, and she owes us nothing in terms of explanation on this front. And your point about Vassar’s Black population is well-taken; being one of just a few Black students even at a very progressive school could be incredibly isolating.

But, again, OP has safeties she’s comfortable with—and presumably as a VA resident knows enough about Mason and VCU to have an educated opinion—so she does not need to consider ones that she believes to be a poor fit, whatever her reasons. And her original question was about likelihood at highly selective schools, not safeties. I know CC’s collective instinct is to focus on safeties/affordability, but OP seems largely set on that front.

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Thanks for the advice and insight, but I did want to clarify that I never mentioned any specific financial information about my family (aka income)? Not exactly sure where the 48k figure came from

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Gotcha. My bad. Someone said someone making less than $30k pays $48k at Howard. Too many figures.

Anyway I encourage you to dig deeper and reach out to any school of marginal interest and ask to sisal to a student ambassador.

They will typically be honest. Very honest in answering your questions.

Best of luck in how you continue.

@Collegequestions5 i think the initial question like many who don’t get in ED was do I need to change my app, do I even have a chance at top 20? And the answer is you always have a chance if you apply but I don’t personally see it happening. Then it’s like - where can Op get in that might meet their needs - whatever they are.

Ps OP I went back. This is what you wrote about cost - so we are all on the same page. Sorry for my incorrect #.

“I need aid, but i have worked out w my parents that i’ll go to an in-state school unless i get into my dream school or something similar, we ran the npc’s for those and it should be affordable, so i don’t want to spend too much time working out this part BUT since I am a national merit semifinalist and apparently 95% of semifinalists become finalists, i would love to add some schools that give me a lot of money for that! (but aren’t in the south i am very very averse to that so no bama or arizona or anything)”

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No worries! This has become a very long thread now that I look at it haha. I’ll see if I can get in touch with a student ambassador

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Two threads. :).

You can. At any school. Don’t be shy. Never hurts to have conversations.

Good luck.

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Those numbers were just example numbers that I pulled from USNews data to show how bad the financial aid is at Howard.

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Isn’t Vassar truly need blind and no-loans?

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It is need-blind and meet-full-need, but not loan-free.

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i do not feel I know you well enough to select among the 5k colleges in th US. Give me your top 3 criteria.

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Sounds like a good ED2 choice.

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Not necessarily - I think the previous question about what’s important matters.

If an African American population is of concern to OP, Vassar might not work given it’s population is extremely small percentage wise.

Also, Brown has surroundings…Vassars are much less dense.

I really think @michaelcollege note is right on point - give me your top 3 criteria.

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Yes, but I still don’t know if I’d be willing to make that committment

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@tsbna44 @michaelcollege

  1. a good econ and/or poli sci program with good job placement and access to internships
  2. need-blind, meets full need with no loans
  3. preferably on the east coast, west coast is okay too but not a big fan of the midwest or south
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  1. Anywhere.

  2. And 3. I left in a couple marginally not east or west. Note Berea is low income only.

These have loans with income limits. I left all in as it was hard to remove schools not in geography with the text. So WUSTL and RICE are left. Thx

Take the easier…Bryn Mawr, Colby but not easy).not the reach of reach.

As this is third party info you might triple check.

Bryn Mawr College “Students with a total family income of less than $60,000 and total family assets of less than $500,000; for these students, 100% of demonstrated need, as calculated by the student’s financial aid application, will be met with grants and work-study. Loans will no longer be used to meet need, and on average these students will see a $3,500 increase in their Bryn Mawr Grant eligibility.”
Colgate University Aid is loan-free if your parents’ total income is less than $175,000.
Cornell University Aid is loan-free if your parents’ total income is less than $60,000 and total assets are less than $100,000.
Dartmouth College Aid is loan-free if your parents earn less than $65,000. Your family will not be expected to make any financial contribution.
Duke University Aid is loan-free if your parents earn less than $40,000. Your family will not be expected to make any financial contribution.
Haverford College Aid is loan-free if your parents earn less than $60,000. Families making more than this threshold can expect small loans ranging from $1,500 to $3,000 a year.
Lafayette College Aid is often loan-free if your parents earn less than $150,000.
Lehigh University 90% of undergraduate families with an income less than $75,000 received grants and scholarships in an amount greater than the full cost of tuition.
Rice University Aid is loan-free if your parents earn less than $200,000. Students whose parents make less than $75,000 will receive coverage for tuition, fees, room, and board, whereas those whose parents make between $75,000 and $140,000 will receive full coverage for tuition only.
Tufts University Aid is typically loan-free for students with total family incomes of less than $60,000. All other students qualifying for financial aid can expect to have a maximum of $7,000 in loans per year.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Low-income North Carolina students may qualify for aid without loans through the Carolina Covenant.
Vassar College Aid is loan-free for students from low-income families.
Washington University in St. Louis Aid is loan-free if your parents earn less than $75,000.
Wellesley College Aid is loan-free if your calculated family contribution is less than $7,000 per year and your parents earn less than $100,000. All other students qualifying for financial aid can expect to have a maximum of $15,200 in loans over four years.
Wesleyan University “Domestic students from families who earn less than $120,000 (with typical assets) are offered a financial aid package with an additional $3,500 for freshmen, $4,500 for sophomores, $5,500 for juniors, and $5,500 for seniors in Wesleyan scholarship that replaces the standard loan package.”
Williams College Aid is loan-free if parents earn less than $75,000 with typical assets. For everyone else, loans are capped at $4,000 per academic year.
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Williams financial aid is all grants and they’ve eliminated work-study from their aid packages. https://www.williams.edu/admission-aid/financial-aid/aid-and-financing/

I haven’t looked up the other schools you’ve listed. I just have personal experience with Williams. It’s key to do your own research. IME financial aid office staff are happy to answer questions.

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Yes it’s third party prep scholar so I noted op will have to check each.

I’d also say looking at the background - most, all are reaches.

Maybe not BM.

So would OP rather go to a school with loans, but not a ton - then GMU ?

Then consider the F&Ms of the world, Oberlin, Occidental, Union, Miami.

And of course meets need doesn’t matter if they don’t matter if they don’t say you have substantial. So check NPCs.

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Washington and Lee financial aid does not include loans, I can confirm.

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It’s borderline North South. Most would say southern. Nicest small campus in America…imho.

But some African American are bothered by the name. Others not.

OP - I forget if you’ve done this but through essay or EC let them know your ethnicity. A school like W&L wants to diversify …as do others.

I just feel like you’re wanting to overreach but would be disappointed if you went to GMU so I’d try lessen selectivity if possible.

Ps the first list is no loan - includes W&L. The second is no loans with income limits.

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Amherst is no loans as well.

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