Yes they are on the first list above. The entire list is no loans.
The 2nd is no loans with income conditions.
But I’m concerned if the student looks at Amherst and Williams types they will be at GMU.
The student, to me, isn’t at that level from an admissions POV.
Just wanted to offer some encouragement and assure you that no one on CC can predict your eventual outcomes or worthiness. Great things about CC is that it’s free and anonymous.
That means anyone, no matter their degree of expertise can express an opinion, and no one really knows you, your LORs, essays, etc. That can lead to a lot of false assumptions.
I certainly am no better positioned to answer your “big” question but I can assure you that you are impressive and should finish the application process confident and self assured with a plan for all outcomes.
Good luck.
Thank you!!! This looks amazing. Rice is already on my list as an exception to my location rule bc of their awesome aid and NMF scholarship they give. The rest with income restrictions won’t work (except for colgate, but i don’t really want to apply there).
@cinnamon1212 @tsbna44 considering adding either W&M or W&L to my list—any insight as to which one might be a better fit?
Thank you very very much :)) there are so many helpful people here on CC, but not gonna lie the brutal honesty can hurt sometimes 
i can only try my best and hope for the best as well!!
You didn’t ask me specifically, but I think W&M is a great idea. I would not pursue W&L.
Did you run the W&L NPC?
As an in state resident, you can have assured cost at W&M.
They meet need for in state but only pell - and that’s not you. In state shows $43K but 65% do receive some sort of aid.
W&L meets need - check the NPC.
As for honesty, I think you’re mis interpreting.
Well, ones come on CC for opinions and that’s what you get. If others want to simply follow up an individuals email with don’t listen to them, they should find a different life. They can provide an opinion without disrupting another’s opinion.
All I’m saying is - when you look at schools like Williams and Amherst, they are similar in selectivity to Yale.
That’s not to say that someone who doesn’t get turned down at Brown doesn’t get into equally as selective Harvard or Princeton. One doesn’t know - each school is on its own.
But too many kids go directly back to the same level of selectivity where they haven’t had success vs. taking it a notch down. And one wants alternatives - that maybe aren’t GMU. And you are concerned with your B+ in first semester(shouldn’t be but it’s a valid point to consider).
But it’s simply my opinion. I also think, if you can get your ethnicity into the picture, it can help because schools want diversity but can no longer use the box identifier.
W&M is in one of the nicest parts of the country and it should be do-able for you on a day trip to go check it out. I think statistically, you stand a chance. Less of a chance at W&L but your ethnicity would help. It’s a very Greek school (W&L)so make sure you are ok with that. You might reach out to a student ambassador to learn more. A Franklin & Marshall type would give you better odds.
Both are very nice campuses - with W&L right up the hill from Lexington (you could literally roll down to great restaurants) and W&M in a bigger area…with a little tourist district right off campus.
Both would be excellent…but make sure they would be excellent for you.
Rice also has an income driven plan - the Rice investment. I’m not familiar with their national merit scholar scholarship nor do I see any info. What do they provide? Tulsa would be the “safety” with scholarship. They even share the athletic conference (along with SMU til it’s gone to the ACC, Tulane, and then others that aren’t in a similar category)…but these share more similarities.
Why not add both?
As an in state student your chances of admission are better at William & Mary. Plus it’s cheaper and as a Virginia resident I expect you would take priority over out of state students for financial aid.
W&L has excellent aid, and is prioritizing diversity, so that’s positive for you. The percentage of Black students on campus are the same as most other LACs. That said, the school has a terrible history which it is putting huge resources and attention into overcoming. W&L has a different vibe to Brown. You sound like you might have been competitive for the Johnson Scholarship, but the deadline for that has passed. It’s a great school; hopefully if ypu apply and get accepted you could visit before making any decision.
My two cents is William & Mary would be a great college for you. In my circles it is popular with kids who also like Brown, and it is very strong in your areas. I personally love the campus, and for you it would be a huge bargain.
Hopkins gives no loan aid and is very focused on increasing diversity. Most recent entering class 14 percent black students.
I go back to my point on your esssay / ECs - make sure your ethnicity is noted - outside of checking a box which cannot be used.
You’re a wonderful candidate for many schools on your own merits but diversity also helps when it can be used. And anyone for top shelf schools needs all the help they can get.
In reality while well intentioned many people with opinions have no experience at the higher end schools you are applying to so their guess is just that. My kid went to Brown but graduated last year so I would even caveat my own observations as the world has changed.
“i can only try my best and hope for the best as well!!”
Great attitude that will serve you well!!
Another vote for William & Mary. My son majored in gov’t there and they a strong program, with research opportunities.
W&M was also generous in accepting AP credits and my son graduated in 3 years, saving a year of tuition. IMO, W&M has the feel of a LAC with small classes, but is mid-size @ 6,500 undergrad students.
It really ended up standing out to my S24 for just those reasons (although he has different academic interests).
Colleges like Brown are basically like big historic LACs embedded in modern universities, indeed that is essentially their history. At a high level, they started on the same path as the older SLACs, but then some surrounded themselves with the other components of modern universities and some decided to stay SLACs.
William & Mary is quite literally another of those sorts of colleges, and it followed the university path, but it also affiliated with the state of Virginia. In that sense its closest cousins are actually Rutgers, Pitt, and Delaware, which have a broadly similar history. But all of those institutions at least evolved closer to “normal” state universities, not least in size (although as an aside, I think more and more people are beginning to rediscover how those particular universities maybe are in fact a little different from normal state universities in ways some people value).
William & Mary, however, remained closer in size and feel to the private universities with an otherwise similar history. In that sense, although I have never loved this term, it truly is pretty close to being a “public Ivy”–not in the sense that emphasizes “prestige” and other stuff I do not particularly credit, but rather in the sense that the size, format, and feel of William & Mary is much closer to the non-Cornell Ivies than really any other comparable public university.
Anyway, that’s overdoing the history a bit, but I just think these are the basic reasons why kids who like the feel of places like Brown also tend to like William & Mary.
I agree with this overall (in terms of why W&M is different from other state schools), but I don’t agree that the vibe is similar to Brown. That doesn’t mean someone who likes Brown wouldn’t like W&M, but I do think W&M is a more intense, less social place than Brown overall. And Williamsburg couldn’t be more different from Providence in terms of vibe (colonial-era history aside); I say this having lived in the Burg for a few years and having spent a lot of time in Providence.
I said above that I absolutely think OP should pursue W&M; it’s a great school that would be a bargain for her as a VA resident. I just wouldn’t want to oversell it as a replacement for Brown.
don’t have enough space on my commonapp or i could take off vcu (havent applied yet and dont see the point given i’ve been accepted to virginia tech and will go there if i don’t get in anywhere i like better), will certainly consider it! can definietely tell w&l doesn’t have a great history just from the name of the school…
yep! i have black student union on my EC’s and i mention my identity in my common app (also some supplements but i try not to harp on it too much)
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