<p>Middkid86 - with 20k+ applications, I don’t think adcoms are going to look at case by case. Most of the time they are looking to eliminate applicants. I think you live in some make believe world.</p>
<p>Middkid86 - with 20k+ applications, I don’t think adcoms are going to look at case by case. Most of the time they are looking to eliminate applicants. I think you live in some make believe world.</p>
<p>We’re talking about the number of applicants that back out of an ED agreement, which is likely a very small number that can and should be looked at on a case-by-case basis, at least before all future applicants from a specific high school are blacklisted.</p>
<p>One last thought to add to the silliness of some of the argument: Why would a student tell their counselor they intended to cheat the system? With the exception of the blockhead principal at the presentation I mentioned above, most counselors would, appropriately, NOT sign an ED application of they knew a student intended to play the system. So defacto, its extremely , EXTREMELY unlikely a counselor would know,and could therefore be complicit, in this. Nonetheless, that doesnt IMO, absolve them or their school from dealing with the ramifications of the pi$$ed off admissions office.</p>
<p>Even though number of applicants that back out of an ED agreement is small, adcoms are still very busy going over 20k+ applications. When there are thousands who want a spot, why should they bother with a handful of students from a problem high school (students, GCs, parents, whatever).</p>
<p>You keep changing your argument too.</p>
<p>No, my argument has been very consistent: an admissions office will not punish future applicants from a specific high school based on the actions of one applicant from that school who violates an ED agreement, absent any knowledge or complicity of high school staff.</p>
<p>MiddKid86 - what evidence do you have that an admission office will not punish future applicants, other than the fact that you don’t think it would be fair?</p>
<p>Even though number of applicants that back out of an ED agreement is small, adcoms are still very busy going over 20k+ applications. When there are thousands who want a spot, why should they bother with a handful of students from a problem high school (students, GCs, parents, whatever).</p>
<p>If they just want to forget about it and get on with the business at hand, then they wouldn’t bother. If, on the other hand, they have some kind of policy that dictates blacklisting future applicants from that school, then they have a vested interest in making sure that the problem is more than just a wayward student breaking the rules on his own.</p>
<p>And this argument isn’t about “a handful of students from a problem high school.” If it was, I would say that blacklisting is a perfectly appropriate response by the college. There’s obviously a pattern. What I am talking about is the case where there is one student acting on his own.</p>
<p>No, you have selected different aspects of this discussion which modifies parts of your argument throughout the thread. But I have neither the time nor the interest in showing you this. We agree that the statement that the school would “never ever take a student ever again” was an overstatement. But if you asked for evidence that the schools may reap consequences in future classes for the behavior of a current applicant. And I linked the NYT article. Whether its what should happen in the ideal situation matters not. Good day.</p>
<p>We are talking about what is appropriate or what is fair, we are talking about what happens in real life.</p>
<p>MiddKid86 - what evidence do you have that an admission office will not punish future applicants, other than the fact that you don’t think it would be fair?</p>
<p>It would be against the self-interest of the college to do so, under the conditions stated in post #66.</p>
<p>We are talking about what is appropriate or what is fair, we are talking about what happens in real life.</p>
<p>Fine. Given the conditions stated in post #66, has a college ever blacklisted future students? In real life.</p>
<p>When acceptances at the top schools are in the single digits, and one, even just one student does something unethical that wastes the time and energy of an overworked admissions office, they have every right to be skeeved and give less credence to the future applicants from that school. There are plenty, PLENTY of other equally qualified applicants from schools that don’t have a black mark on their record.</p>
<p>No, you have selected different aspects of this discussion which modifies parts of your argument throughout the thread. But I have neither the time nor the interest in showing you this. We agree that the statement that the school would “never ever take a student ever again” was an overstatement. But if you asked for evidence that the schools may reap consequences in future classes for the behavior of a current applicant. And I linked the NYT article. Whether its what should happen in the ideal situation matters not. Good day.</p>
<p>The germane part of the NYT article said that school counselors were very careful with ED applications, because they realized that if they weren’t careful, it could impact future classes (paraphrasing). I agree with this- the counselors should be careful, and if they’re not there should be consequences.</p>
<p>Repeating:
The school may not be “blacklisted” in the most extreme sense of the word, but it is quite reasonable to assume that their applicants may go further down the pile the next year. </p>
<p>In small schools, where each application is read carefully by several readers and they discuss the applicants as they build a class, if they have 2 equally qualified candidates and are deciding which to choose, if one comes from a school where a student renegged on an ED in bad faith in a past year, this can be cause, all else being equal, to choose the schools that teaches better morals (speaking in generalities- dont jump all over that one.)</p>
<p>You can slice and dice what you think is the most “germane” part of the NYT article, but the reality is, like it or not, adcomms have memories and the bad behavior of an applicant one year can come back to haunt the HS the next.</p>
<p>The mere fact that blackballing is even a possibility makes it an effective threat. No one needs to prove it exists, it exists in the minds of everyone who is connected to the process, and everyone knows someone who knows of a school where it has happened. You can be as cool and logical as you want, but everyone still believes in the monster, therefore, perception becomes reality. No one wants to take the chance that the monster is real.</p>
<p>You can also argue that group punishments are unfair until you are blue in the face. The fact is, the reason they exist is, they work. Who ever said college admissions was fair?</p>
<p>Read this thread from several years back. While the situations have changes some with some schools doing EA or SCEA rather than ED, the general philosophy/policy remains the same <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/256883-what-happens-if-you.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/256883-what-happens-if-you.html</a></p>
<p>OP, if you’re still around–have you called and emailed Flagler to ask them to convert you to RD? They’re being flexible with the ED application deadline due to all of the Common App issues, so you shouldn’t have a problem if you let them know NOW.</p>
<p>Hard to know exactly what would happen with future ED applicants at the OP’s school if he bowed out of a Flagler ED acceptance, assuming he’s not applied for FA. The OP’s college counselor is sadly and dangerously ignorant about ED. The problem/misunderstanding isn’t just on the OP–it’s very much also on the counselor. It’s the counselor who doesn’t understand the first thing about the ED agreement, who hasn’t impressed on the student what signing up for ED means. The exact same thing could happen again in years to come…at which point Common App colleges are going to start seeing that there’s a problem with someone who’s supposed to be a gatekeeper to the process. That’s why the counselor’s signature is required! They’re supposed to be the knowledgeable professional. </p>
<p>The OP says that his school sends some grads to “top” colleges. The school (and future students) might not be blackballed at Flagler, but other Common App colleges might not be so forgiving.</p>
<p>Well said, MrMom. Spot on.</p>
<p>And from collegeBoard:
</p>