Religions: positives and negatives

lealdragon · May 28, 2007, 6:12pm

Since many other threads have degenerated from discussion into bashing of some religions, I thought it might be interesting to start a thread with the following guidelines:

<li>Intellectual debate is welcome as long as it’s respectful and truly desirous of listening to the other point of view.</li>
<li>For every negative point about a religion you post, you must also include something positive. (You can say something positive without any negatives if you want.)</li>
</ol>

This could be fun! It would force us to try to see the good in another point of view.

I’ll start:

<hr>

New Age (not actually a religion, but a loose category of those who believe that all the LOVE-based religions have a piece of the truth - however for many this is the closest they’ll get to a religion, so I’ll include it here)

What I like about it: Very open-minded and tolerant. Allows each individual to pursue his/her own path without judgment, provided s/he is not hurting anyone else. Embraces the good in the various religions while rejecting the dogma.

What I don’t like: Some New Agers tend to be rather aloof. I’ve had the experience of telling them about some personal challenges, and got a condescending ‘Oh, must be your karma. I’ll hold you in the light.’

<hr>

Born-Again Christian

What I like about it: In contrast to my experience with ‘some’ New Agers, most of the Born-Agains I’ve met will instantly drop everything and pray for you. Nice. I’ve met some who were genuinely loving and caring, and I appreciated that. Also, their worship services are often very joyful and uplifting.

What I don’t like: The elitist attitude - “I’m saved you’re not” - and that it tends to be based on FEAR rather than LOVE - “You must become a Christian and believe as I do or you’ll burn in ‘hell’ forever.” Also, too much focus on the wrathful ‘God’ of the old testament and not enough on the teachings of Jesus.

<hr>

Paganism

What I like about it: Acknowledges the Divine Feminine Principle, as well as a connection to Divinity to be found throughout Creation. Has a Prime Directive of ‘Do as you wish, as long as you harm no one.’ Respectful and harmonious.

What I don’t like: Some Pagans I’ve met have been so misunderstood (labeled ‘satanists’ etc.) by the mainstream religions that they have retaliated vindictively by hating Christianity. Also, some have taken the feminism thing too far, imo, by excluding the male principle (ie, men). However, many do balance the male and female. As with most other religions, some can be dogmatic.

<hr>

Budddhism

What I like about it: Advocates the pursuit of inner peace. Does not proselytize.

What I don’t like: Doesn’t allow much room for a personal deity, to my knowledge.

<hr>

Catholicism

What I like about it: Recognizes the Divine Feminine Principle in the form of Mary

What I don’t like: The hierarchy of the pope, priests etc. at the expense of personal responsibility. (Same could be said of other religions.)

<hr>

Science (yup, it could be considered a religion)

What I like about it: Uses the brain God gave us

What I don’t like: Uses only the left side

corranged · May 28, 2007, 6:41pm

Catholicism
What I like:

Tradition is valued and upheld
Young Catholics, in my experience, are more loving and accepting than young people of other religions while staying true and faithful
I like the notion of a formal “Confession” because it forces people to recognize and stay conscious of their sins
There is more of an intellectual tradition encouraged than I have seen in other Christian denominations. Though a hierarchy exists, people seem more encouraged to think about and examine their beliefs and the Bible.
What I dislike:
The “Catholic guilt” is alive and well. Devout Catholics are made to feel enormous guilt for their humanity (and therefore imperfection).
The loyalty to tradition impedes healthy and natural progress and change
The expectations are so great that many people fade from practicing. I see this as good for the faith but bad for the religion, if you get my distinction.

**“Christianity”<a href=“the%20Born%20Again,%20Evangelical,%20general%20non-denominational%20Christianity%20seen%20in%20the%20US%20today”>/b</a>
What I like:

People feel loved by God
People feel good about themselves
People feel inspired with their religion
Community is valued
What I dislike:
People do not transfer those good feelings onto others. In my experience these people tend to be less loving, less accepting, more excluding, and more judging
People seem to feel that they are fundamentally better than those with different beliefs
People often socialize only in their religion (and outside the religion in order to convert others)

Judaism
What I like:

Notion of tradition
Strength of community
Importance placed on religious education
What I dislike:
Seems to be more set in stone; people are not encouraged to convert, and the familial tradition is so strong that it limits the community
Children are educated so early and the community is so strong that children do not have the time or ability, it seems, to truly consider the religion

hereshoping · May 28, 2007, 6:46pm

Personally I’m not comfortable critiquing religions other than my own; but I like your Catholic comments, corranged.

lealdragon · May 28, 2007, 6:59pm

I like all your comments, corranged.

hh: I see your point. I don’t know much about some religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, so I wouldn’t comment on those. I commented on those that I’ve had personal experience with. Even then, my knowledge is limited, so my comments are based only on subjective experience.

However, subjective experience is important too, since some of these religions do focus on conversion, and they might be interested to know how others perceive them.

corranged · May 28, 2007, 7:07pm

I think it’s interesting to see people’s varying experiences with and reactions to different religions. I don’t know everything about the religions I posted, so I made sure to try to note that what I wrote was only based on my perceptions of the religion, its followers, and its practices.

conyat · May 28, 2007, 7:16pm

Catholicism:
What I like:
Rich cultural heritage as well as spiritual
Accomodation with pre-existing local traditions
The complex relationship Catholics have with the Church “their true Mother on Earth”
Liberal values in action: caring for the poor and sick, educating minorities, seeking justice for the oppressed
St. Expedite (remind me to tell you the story sometime)
The Poor Clares, Ursulines and Dominicans
Schools that provide excellent religious and academic education
The idea of being empowered to give an emergency baptism in a life or death situation. Never happened to me, but I always hoped.
Some of the great old hymns.
You can go to Mass everyday if you want.
Godparents

What I don’t
I never could believe in transubstantiation.
Some aspects of Church history are regrettable.
The lack of scriptural (and sometimes even doctrinal) authority for some teachings.

First Christian Church/Disciples of Christ
what I like
Open communion for all who believe in Christ.
Campbell father and son, an ocean apart, coming independently to the same conclusions about communion at about the same time.
Desire to unite all Christians in one body.
Participation in ecumenical councils.
Independent, self-governing churches.
Elders being able to perform all pastor tasks, including communion and worship leading.
The battle between good and evil is personal. I feel less removed from it than in religions where the clergy serve as intermediaries.
Congregations tend to be small and friendly, so people know each other well.
Origins on the American frontier.
Sunday school isn’t just for kids.
Some great music here too.
People interact freely with the officiant during the service (I’m still uncomfortable with it, but I like it).
The children’s sermon (brings the main message down to a level they can understand, delivered before the main sermon, which they are excused for). 
The congregation really is like a family. The main relationship is with each other and Christ, not the institution or the hierarchy.
Use of the cross, not the crucifix, to emphasize that the Savior lived.
Women and men are equal in the church and can perform all the same roles.
Texas Christian University and others founded by FCC/DOC
Church camp for the kids.
Reformation Sunday (commemorates the 95 theses)

What I don’t
Sometimes too much attention to the music and not enough to other aspects.
The tendancy of our congregations to split when we disagree…it’s a wound that never heals.
How hard it is to find a minister when there’s a vacancy.
The fishbowl that a minister’s wife has to live in.
The cumbersome name (FCC/DOC).
We became a denomination without meaning to.

dmd77 · May 28, 2007, 8:01pm

What I like about the religions I know well: Unitarians: so open-minded our brains fall out. (The Unitarian creed is: Faith Reason Tolerance.) I love Unitarian after-the-service cookies and tea. (I attended a Unitarian-Universalist church for 7 years. Mostly for the cookies and hymns.)

Friends Meeting: the emphasis on the inner light. (I went to a Quaker elementary school.)

Episcopalians: well, they’re the ones with the money–and they give a LOT of it away. (I went to an Episcopalian high school.) They have the best music.

Catholics: the Catholic churches are far and away the prettiest. Especially in Europe. The evening I attended Mass at Notre Dame (in Paris) and turned around to walk out the central door (opened only for Mass) and found the evening light flooding through the rose windows was the evening I finally understood how the Church could have the power it did in the middle ages.

lealdragon · May 28, 2007, 8:09pm

Thanks for reminding me, dmd, how much I used to love Midnight Mass at Christmas as a child! It just wasn’t Christmas without Midnight Mass - so very beautiful and magickal!

lealdragon · May 28, 2007, 8:14pm

Latter Day Saints (Mormonism)

What I like: Nearly all the Mormons I’ve met have seemed so…HAPPY! And they seem very devoted to their families and community. And, no one tried to push me into converting. They were very warm and welcoming. And, when I asked them what happens to non-Mormons, they told me they will have a chance to ‘learn’ in the next life…no eternal damnation! They leave the door open for the possibility that God might yet find all the ‘lost sheep’ rather than giving up on them by sending them to ‘hell.’ A compassionate view, imo.

What I don’t like: Too much emphasis on conformity as far as clothing, hair styles, etc. - too conservative for my taste. I understand their reasoning - they want to honor the body temple - they frown upon coffee and other stimulants as well, which I think is a good thing. I just think that fashions come and go and it was really sort of arbitrary to pick the standard fashion from a couple of generations ago. Not much room for freedom of expression. It’s a minor thing, though, not really important compared to other things, I guess. Not as confining as those religions that require robes or turbans, right?

ucsd_ucla_dad · May 28, 2007, 9:36pm

(Generic) -
What I don’t like -
Anyone who comes to my door trying to hawk their religion (this has mostly been Jehova’s Witnesses, Mormons, and some various ‘Christian’ sects). I’m not disparaging the entire religion - just the piece where it encourages the members to invade my space trying to get me to join them.

What I do like -
Regardless of the validity of the religion in anyone’s mind, many of the religions seem to fulfill a need many people have and help them in leading their lives and obtaining contentment.

curmudgeon · May 28, 2007, 9:56pm

I like that faith brings my daughter great peace and sometimes even joy. I like that faith provides her bedrock in which to anchor herself when the storms come. I like that when I’m gone (wherever the heck it is people like me go) she’ll have something both strong and comforting to hold onto.

ldmom06 · May 28, 2007, 10:04pm

Lutheran

What I like -

Focus on learning about other religions in a nonjudgemental way. We learn the differences without doing the ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’ thing.

The three solas: Grace alone, Faith alone, Scripture alone

Most churches offer traditional and contemporary services which offer something for everyone.

Pastors are usually the genuinely happiest, kindest guys you’ll ever meet.

Strong youth organizations with very strong focus on community service. No preaching to others, just serving.

What I don’t like -

When a perfectly nice little congregation bows to pressure to compete with the giant mega-churches (we have a LOT of those in Houston). We’ve left two Lutheran Churches who allowed themselves to get so big, a person feels lost in the crowd.

Closed communion - Most Lutheran Churches bend this rule…so why not throw it out?

momfromme · May 28, 2007, 10:24pm

Another poster wrote: "Judaism
What I dislike:

Seems to be more set in stone; people are not encouraged to convert, and the familial tradition is so strong that it limits the community
Children are educated so early and the community is so strong that children do not have the time or ability, it seems, to truly consider the religion"

These comments bear virtually no resemblance to Judaism as I have seen it and practiced it. I am not saying it’s not true in some places and times. However, it is absolutely not true many places. For instance, the Union for Reform Judaism, the largest organization of Jews in America, has many outreach outreach and education programs. There is considerable diversity within Judaism (as I’m sure there is in the other religions as well) and I’m not sure what good it does to list what’s good and bad about any religion, as if the whole religion was homogeneous.

Furthermore, while Jews generally do not try to get non-Jews to convert to Judaism, this does not mean that the community is closed. Conversion is not sought because Jews believe there is one God and many paths to God. Jews do not argue, for instance, that something bad will happen to you in this life or in some afterlife if you are not Jewish. Also, as my rabbi points out, in the past it would have been extremely dangerous for Jews to seek converts. People who converted to Judaism in the middle ages in Europe were frequently treated as traitors to Christianity and they and the local Jewish communities were the brunt of various punishments, such as having to pay fines, being put in jail or having property destroyed or confiscated, or being driven away.

corranged · May 28, 2007, 10:56pm

To quote my previous post, Momfromme: “I think it’s interesting to see people’s varying experiences with and reactions to different religions. I don’t know everything about the religions I posted, so I made sure to try to note that what I wrote was only based on my perceptions of the religion, its followers, and its practices.”

Further, you stated that my comment (“people are not encouraged to convert, and the familial tradition is so strong that it limits the community”) bore “virtually no resemblance” to Judaism, but then esentially stated that it’s true that people are not encouraged to convert. The reasoning for that may be that Jews don’t feel it’s necessary for people to convert; that’s fine. I put it as something I disliked because I have never felt as if it would be normal or conventional or appreciated for someone like me to convert outside of a marriage situation. This may be a positive for some, it may be neutral for some, it may not be completely accurate; it is, however, my personal perception based on my experiences.

As for my comment that “the familial tradition is so strong that it limits the community,” that is what I have observed to be true. As explained to me, Jewish men marry Jewish women in order to have Jewish children. Though some women convert before marriage, and I know some who have, it appears to be more common for people to marry inside the faith. This is true with Christianity as well, but the notion that a mother should be Jewish in order for children to be Jewish does not exist, so there is more leeway. Further, the Christian community is many, many times larger than the Jewish community in the United States, so it does not appear quite as insular.

mathmom · May 28, 2007, 11:21pm

Christianity
what I like: the music and the architecture it’s inspired
what I don’t like: the concept of original sin

Ethical Culture
what I like: the concept that there’s human worth in everyone and the idea that what you do is more important than what you believe
what I don’t like: meetings can be pretty boring

Judaism
what I like: the respect for questioning and education
what I don’t like: the concept of a chosen people

All gross simplifications I am sure.

momfromme · May 28, 2007, 11:21pm

Corranged: I may not have been clear. What I meant to say is that I don’t see Judaism as closed. I have a very welcoming synagogue and non-Jews regularly attend services, events, classes, etc.

Also I was trying to explain something about views about conversion in Judaism and could have been clearer.

I have the feeling that we have different views about encouraging people to convert. In my view, it’s intrusive for someone to try to get me to go to their religion. It doesn’t feel good to me, it feels harassing and annoying and disrespectful of my views and traditions. I can accept that you have a different view about conversion.

If people are interested in becoming Jews, they are more than welcome. Becoming Jewish takes time and a commitment to study and learn; it is not a quick process. To become Jewish, one must learn history and practices and intellectual traditions.

I know a lot of folks who converted to Judaism when there was no marriage or relationship issue involved. BTW, in Reform Judaism (the largest group of Jews in America), the child is Jewish if one parent is Jewish. So if one is Reform, you don’t have to marry a Jewish woman to have Jewish children.

momfromme · May 28, 2007, 11:24pm

Mathmom: The way my rabbi puts the idea of chosenness is this: In Judaism, the only thing that Jews are chosen for is to follow the laws of Torah (as interpreted). It doesn’t mean that Jews think they are better than anyone or that anything different happens after death than happens to anyone else. It means there are some obligations of ritual and behavior.

corranged · May 28, 2007, 11:40pm

Momfromme, thanks for the response. I don’t like people knocking at the door to get you to convert or people looking down on you if you don’t. Personally, though, I do like people who are so happy in their religion that they want to share it, and I like the notion that a convert is appreciated. Though a convert to Judaism would certainly be welcomed, I don’t get the same sense that he would be encouraged to convert and appreciated for it. Of course, it may simply be that the Jewish people I know best are quite conservative. I don’t think that they are Reform; at least, I know that they don’t turn on the lights or use electricity during the Shabbat.

mathmom · May 28, 2007, 11:41pm

It does sound better that way, but it still bothers me as a concept.

coronax2 · May 28, 2007, 11:51pm

ldmom…we’re also Lutheran (ELCA) and have “open communion” to all “baptised believers”. Are you Missouri Synod? It surprised me when you said Lutherans have “closed communion”, so I did a quick Google search, and to my surprise, I found that the Missouri Synod practiced “closed communion”. I learned something new today. Thanks. :)

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Religions: positives and negatives

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