<p>I need help determining the eligibility of taking a course I’m currently enrolled in. My situation is that I took Early East Asian History at Irvine Valley College, and received a substandard grade during a non-lucrative time in my education. I now am enrolled in Premodern Asia in Mt. San Antonio College to replace the substandard grade. As the classes are slightly different in scope, I’m promptly trying to figure out whether I should look for another course elsewhere. I’ve cross-referenced the classes on Assist.org, and they always satisfy the same Asian History requirement at different UCs. I’ve been given the run-around from UC/TAG Admissions, UCI/UCLA Admissions and their respective history departments, so I’m just hoping to hear from someone who has dealt with a similar situation. I don’t want to take the course only for it to be deemed unable to replace the substandard grade during the admissions process. Here are the catalog descriptions for the courses:</p>
<p>History 40 - The History of East Asia Before 1800 (IVC):
This course provides an overview of the pre-modern histories of China, Japan and Korea, and of their institutional and cultural interaction. Topics include the origins of civil statecraft in China and its impact on Korean and Japan; the development of a distinctive warrior class in Japan; the elaboration of court cultures in the traditional era. Emphasis will be placed on the analysis of the conflicting themes of cultural unity and cultural uniqueness in East Asian civilization, and on the way in which cultural codes from China were transformed when imported to Japan and Korea.</p>
<p>History 1 - History of Premodern Asia
History of East, South, and Southeast Asia from the prehistoric age to the early modern period. Emphasizes social, political, economic, and cultural changes in Asia from a regional and comparative perspective.</p>
<p>When you want to replace a substandard grade (D or F), the only way to do that is through academic renewal. That has to be granted by the school issued the substandard grade. That school what have to agree that whatever course you took is equivalen, and then they have to agree to allow the new grade to replace the other grade and give you academic renewal. </p>
<p>The UCs and the Cal states will honor that, but they do not decide what gets academically renewed. You need to talk to Irvine college, and find out what their policies are. </p>
<p>Keep in mind there are two types of AR. There is AR with course repeat, and AR without course repeat. You do not have to take the class again to have a grade removed through AR. But call your counselor to get the details. I have found most CC’s are different.</p>
<p>You do not need AR to repeat a class with a D or an F. AR is to remove the grades from the record. If you repeat a class the higher grade will automatically replace the lower grade and the lower will not be calculated into the GPA. The fact that they fulfill the same UC course is indicating that, as far as the UC is concerned, the classes are deemed the same. I’m not sure why you are getting the runaround. Email someone else in admissions at the UC. And make sure you get the answer in writing. I would also push the issue as declaring them two different courses doesn’t make a lot of sense.</p>
<p>@lindyk8
That is not necessarily true. I retook the exact same course at the same school, and I had to file a petition to have a grade academically renewed. It wasn’t a big deal, but I did have to file paperwork. If you take the course at two different schools you have to have it academically Renewed by the first school. If you just retake the same course, without having the school officially AR grade, then you just get the average of the two grades.</p>
<p>If you apply to a UC, and you have take in the same course twice, they will just average both grades unless the school has officially, on your transcript, noted it as academic renewal.</p>
<p>UC may or may not agree on if the course is a retake of the previous course. Their analysis may even vary campus to campus. The only way to absolutely take an equiv course is to re-take it at the same cc, where they will reflect on your transcript it was a retake, which UC will honor. Most cc’s do not allow AR for a single class without re-take. Some will say you must AR the entire courseload from that semester or quarter. Others require a certain waiting period, and still others require you to still be a current student to do so. </p>
<p>I have a similar issue with a women’s history course I took at cc while still in high school. No equiv course anywhere, and retaking is not an option (now out of state) and I am not eligible for AR. The darn thing haunts my GPA to this day, Can’t wait to transfer and pretend it never happened. Yay clean slate!</p>
<p>Here is a link. Several ppl did retake the same class at different CCs and got replacement credit. But it depends on the UC. You have better luck, they say, if it articulates to the same UC course, which yours does. It’s potentially doable - BUT you should get written verification first, or you might be taking a chance. </p>
<p>Thanks for the replies guys. It’s actually not possible for me to retake the course at IVC anymore, hence me taking it elsewhere. I wish I hadn’t been so complacent the last couple of years, but there’s nothing left to do now besides remedy the situation as best as possible. </p>
<p>Okay, so on the TAG/UC applications it allows me to note a course as being a retake – automatically replacing the substandard grade and adjusting the GPA. I’ve gone ahead and changed the would be grade for Fall 2014, and it does indeed adjust the GPA. I would imagine that the UCs would base the GPA off of these applications, though whether they will compare to see if the classes articulate is the main conundrum. </p>
<p>EDIT: @lindyk8 I looked at the other thread, which more or less confirmed my suspicions that this would be a matter resolved only after the admission process. My GPA would be good enough if both grades were factored in to be approved for the TAG, but getting into UCLA and maintaining full-time financial aid status are my main concerns.
IVC’s sister school offers the same course, but as of today (late in the registration cycle) no one has registered for the class, so it will most likely be cancelled. Alternatively, SMC offers East Asian History to 1500 – 300 years shorter than IVC – but that would be a killer drive from the Inland Empire. </p>
<p>@Bear87 Retaking the course at the same school has never been an issue in my experience, but I do know it varies from school to school, and even when either of the attempts took place. I will take your advise on getting in touch with IVC though, hoping they approve the retake at a different school, with the UCs then honoring that.</p>
<p>UCLA doesn’t specifically require an Asian History course, so although they both are listed as a possible “extra” class you can take, there’s no way of knowing if they will approve it. It’s probably a case by case basis, in which they likely seek the department’s advice.</p>
<p>I would also suggest a brief mention in the additional comments about you taking course blank w/the intention to replace/make up for the subpar grade in the previous course. And, if applicable, explain why you did poorly the first time (don’t be blame-y, if you don’t have a legit reason then don’t go into that detail).</p>
<p>I guess what I meant was find out somewhere on assist if both classes articulate to the same course in another major. Maybe check asian studies major. Or there may be another major that lists those two classes as fulfilling the same UC course. That will ease your worries a lot.</p>
<p>@Bear87 I feel like maybe not bringing attention to it might turn out better for me since the application already allows to denote it as a retake. </p>
<p>@Lindyk8 Just checked, doesn’t seem to be articulated for any other majors.</p>
<p>Just because you can mark it as a retake in your application doesn’t mean that it’s ok to do so. If you get accepted, and you send in final transcripts, what you entered and your transcripts won’t match. Without the proper documentation from the CC who issued the subpar grade, you’re essentially lying on your app.</p>
<p>The only way to erase the grade is by AR- either retaking it, and having IVC officially notate your transcripts, or by going thru the AR process of having the grade renewed, by following their process. </p>
<p>You can choose to believe me or not, but if you get accepted, and they see your transcripts don’t match your application, on that basis alone they could rescind admission. </p>
<p>But is the app automatically doing that without your naming the previous class, or are you pointing it out specifically as a retake, noting the previous class? If the latter, that just means it will be flagged for further checking. </p>
<p>I think you should note it in comments. The point is to reiterate nicely that both articulate to the same course on assist, and so obviously your assumption is… Of course, they will probably know this already, but your mentioning it has the psychological impetus of stating the obvious and makes your stand more probable. You’re psychologically pointing them in the direction. It makes them look a bit more like a**holes if they deny the retake.</p>
<p>This is from the IVC Catalogue regarding AR:
"Academic Renewal
Under certain circumstances,
students may elect to have previously
completed courses disregarded in
the computation of their cumulative
grade point average (GPA).
This process is known as academic
renewal, defined in accordance with
Title 5, California Code of Regulations,
Section 55046. The various restrictions
include the following:
A petition must be filed in the
Office of Admissions and Records.
Accompanying the petition must
be evidence that
(a) previous work in question was
substandard (“D,” “F,” “or “NP”), and
(b) the previous substandard
work does not reflect the
student’s current performance
or capabilities.
Previous substandard work will be
disregarded only by the semester,
not by the individual course—that
is, all courses completed in a given
semester will be disregarded,
including those for which the
student received a passing grade.
No more than two semesters
of full-time work or 30 units
of part-time work may
be disregarded.
Only work completed three years
or more before the date of petition
may qualify for academic renewal.
The student must have completed
a minimum of 30 semester units
with a 2.50 GPA subsequent to
the substandard work in question.
Work taken at other regionally
accredited colleges may
be considered.
When coursework is disregarded
in the computation of the cumulative
GPA, the student’s academic
record will be annotated; all
coursework remains on record,
insuring a true and complete
academic history.
Academic renewal by the South
Orange County Community
College District does not
guarantee that other institutions
will approve such action. This
determination will be made by the
respective transfer institutions.
A student may request academic
renewal only once."</p>
<p>This is IVC’s policy on retaking courses in order to have a non-passing grade removed from the GPA.</p>
<p>“Grades for
Repeated Courses
Students are allowed to repeat
a course two times to alleviate a
substandard grade (“D,” “F,” “NP,” or
“W”). Additional retakes are permitted
on an extremely limited basis through
a petition process filed at the Office of
Admissions and Records. A maximum
of two previous substandard grades
and credits can be disregarded in the
computation of grade point averages.
Only the most recent grade will be
used to calculate the student’s grade
point average. However, all previous
work will remain on the transcript,
ensuring a true and complete
academic history.
Grade suppression due to course
repetition will be permitted for the
same course when taken at Irvine
Valley College or for the equivalent
course taken at Saddleback College. If
the class is to be taken at Saddleback
College, students must ensure the
course is equivalent prior to taking
it. The Counseling Center has a list of
Saddleback College courses that are
recognized as equivalent courses to
those offered at Irvine Valley College.
Regulations on repeatability are
currently under review. Changes
are anticipated in the 2013–2014
academic year. See your counselor or
the Office of Admissions and Records
for more information.”</p>
<p>I agree with Lindyk8 on this. Just marking it on the app doesn’t mean they’ll accept it as such. Better to give them a brief explanation, since they give you the space just for such things. They’ll have to evaluate it after you’re accepted, and if you make your intentions clear they can’t as easily go back and say you misrepresented things. You may also save a long wait while they contact you for clarification/additional info when evaluating you for admission if you provide that info right up front. Of course these are just our opinions, only YOU can prevent forest fires. Errr, I mean: only you can decide how you should apply. </p>