My child asked if she can ED to Rice. She earned perfect score on her PSAT test so probably will earn National Merit and get free ride from UTD. Major wise, she’d like to study Cognitive Science and plan to do graduate school. We’re from Houston.
I ran a COA calculator for Rice and we will be paying about $40k/year for Rice.
We’re a one income engineer family, not rich by any measure.
I have saved up some money for her. If I spend $40K/year on Rice, that means no money left for her for grad school and she will have to figure it the rest on her own.
Is Rice worth the extra $40k/year from our pocket for Cognitive Science? and Is Rice better at Cognitive Science than UTD?
What we’re especially love about Rice is the community, the network, the small class size and that every one we’ve met there seems to be down to earth, helpful people. It’s a great personality fit for my child and she will have a great experience there. Additionally, since Rice is in town, she can come home more often and not to worry about travel.
To throw another option in, Texas A&M is also a great school and closer to home. She will probably get scholarship there as well.
If you can afford Rice and it looks like a great fit for her, I don’t see why you wouldn’t let her apply there. The university will have better resources for her, ways to branch out and explore if she doesn’t like Cognitive Science (a major she can’t possibly know much about at this point).
UTD is very, very strong for CS and solid for STEM in general but it is more limited in terms of majors and not as strong across the board as Rice. The student experience (residential community, in particular) would be very different at both.
Wrt grad school, if she knows the parameters, she can decide now or she can cross that bridge when she gets to it. Many students work a few years before going to grad school anyway. If she goes for a PHD, those are usually funded.
Master’s degrees aren’t funded though, so if she finds she needs such a degree for her career (and it’s not clear how committed to this she is, or whether it’s a “just in case” hypothesis) and her company wouldn’t benefit from helping her pay, then it’s a trade off and only your family would be able to evaluate it.
Imho Rice is worth it in your case.
Congrats on the PSAT. What I will say for us when our high stat oldest kid was applying and we hadn’t quite figured out budget, our ceiling may have been in the 40K range is that the ED process was just not on the table for us. We wanted the ability to compare and possibly negotiate financial offers and let the process play out to the end.
It is possible to apply to all these places, let your student visit, continue learn more about these programs and possibly others, keep an open mind, let her know you’re concerned about budget and grad school but you will compare and contrast offers at the end.
If you do ED, I would also be sure to remind my child that if the financial offer doesn’t come in as expected with an acceptance,you may need to move on with applications. The financial calculators have been a mess, so hopefully it would come as expected but I have heard of families having issues this year. Especially with potentially unfunded grad school on the table, there are good reasons to try and save money.
That’s a tough question. Rice is a great university and a great student experience overall. However, my daughter found her experience with the CogSci major specifically to be a bit disappointing, and says she would choose a different major if she had it to do over again. UTD has quite a robust CogSci program, with multiple tracks and a lot of cross-disciplinary coursework that brings the different elements of the field together. (Rice has strong offerings in each subject area but not a lot that integrates them. The CogSci major is sort of a poor stepchild that doesn’t fully belong to any one department.)
If your daughter is neuroscience-oriented, that area of CogSci is probably stronger at Rice than at UTD. (There wasn’t a neuroscience major yet, when my daughter was there, but there is now, and it might be a better choice than CogSci if that’s a strong interest.) But the HCI/UX end of CogSci might be stronger at UTD. (I’m sure there are CS majors at Rice who are delving into those fields, but there isn’t as much that’s accessible to non-CS majors.)
So, no easy answer, because I definitely recommend Rice overall, and as MYOS said, if she’s aiming for a PhD program, that should be funded anyway. But the CogSci program at UTD is pretty impressive - sort of the UCSD of Texas, for that field. (UCSD is very much worth looking at, for grad school, if she continues her focus on CogSci - not an option for undergrad, obviously.) And even with a funded grad program, I’m sure it would make your daughter’s path smoother to have an extra $160K at her disposal. So, tough call - I think either direction is justifiable, and it depends on her particular interests and priorities. It’s hard to see A&M winning, though, over the other two options. Best of luck with the decision. It’s at least great to know that if an ED application to Rice doesn’t work out, she has an amazing and free fallback!
Personally, I wouldn’t ED - because then you lose choice. You might find other schools that share similarity with Rice, etc (maybe not the residential system) - where you can save over Rice - like a Trinity or Tulsa. Why Tulsa ?- full ride for NMSF - so you get the small, personalized school - and save $40K a year. You can put the neuro minor with the major of interest and it doesn’t have the size of UTD. NM status just opens doors that you might not want to close without looking.
If you are doing neuro, you are likely going to grad school - because otherwise what do you do with a neuro degree.
While you can afford the $40K a year, if it exhausts your ability to pay for grad school, then what? Loans. Yuck. Take advantage of your NM status, and you save it all for grad school.
By not EDing,you can also find other schools and even apply to what I call “hail mary” schools - so the W&L Johnson, SMU Presidential, and other full rides, etc. Even a Vandy and WUSTL offer full rides…and other schools do as well.
Rice tracks demonstrated interest - so you want to show interest, etc. Rice has a surprisingly low ED admit rate (two years ago) - 511 of 2725 so less than 20% and that will include athletes. So it may not even give you much a boost. But showing interest lets them know - you’re engaged.
But ED, and all the possibilities out there, including your ability to help fund grad school, are gone.
And that’s why I would absolutely not ED.
Rice is a fantastic school -but there are many others as well - and with a neuro degree, I’m not sure the where will matter - because honestly, other than more school, the degree likely won’t have a lot of marketability (IMHO).
Good luck.
Thank you for the advice. She plans to go to law school for grad. Is law school funded as well or only funded if you do a PhD?
Law schools are not typically funded but there is merit, etc. I know someone at a private in Florida (full tuition) - who turned down Vandy - much higher ranked.
btw - Law school can and will happen from anywhere - so that’s even more reason - if finances are an issue (for grad, after you spent the $40K a year on undergrad) - not to ED and keep options open.
In the 2023-24 first year class, Harvard had 147 schools represented, schools like Canisius, Drake, Montclair State, Tennessee Tech, U of you name it - Iowa, Kansas, Missisippi, Ole Miss. Yale lists 169 for the last five years - similar types - and others like Youngstown State. UVA - #8 ranked - amongst its most common schools during the last several years (composition changes each year) - Arkansas, George Mason, UGA, South Carolina, ASU, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc.
The point being - while many students at top law schools come from top schools, the diversity of schools attended is enormous - likely because it’s the GPA and LSAT, plus at some work experience, that create this - so your student isn’t likely going to to shorted a top law school education - if they’re qualified no matter where they go. But - they might be shorted the financing to do so - so in my mind, another reason not to ED given your limited budget. The student may end up Rice but if were me, I’d keep my options open. I’m not sure that Rice is necessarily giving you better post grad options. That’s different than the experience - Rice (or another) may give you a better four year experience - that will differ by student.
Good luck.
Some law schools give tuition scholarships to their top applicants but often students have to pay for the whole thing.
If she sticks with the Law school idea, then UTD is a better idea. You want to save the money for Law School and she wants the highest possible GPA ×LSAT combination.
That being said, being a student at UTD is not the same as being a student at Rice.
+/-,Rice may come out on top for career support, internships, alumni network, etc. But for Cognitive Science you’d have to check.
Why Cognitive Science->Law school?
But don’t forget, if they are national merit and it sounds like will be the case - it’s more than UTD - and Tulsa (as an example) might be more Rice like in smaller setting - and there are others too - even a USC, BU, Bama, FSU, Texas Tech, and I’m sure more. There’s also full rides (not auto) they could go for at places like SMU, W&L and more.
I think Rice is awesome and if they want to go at $40K and can afford it and want to worry about law school later - great.
I just think the ED cuts off the flexibility a family like this might need. Hence I wouldn’t ED.
If the ED comes and I don’t like it, can I decline it at that time?
No. ED is a binding decision and you are expected to attend that university. When applying ED, you as the parent agree to an ED contract. However, if the actual financial aid package is very different than what the NPC has estimated, you can be released from the agreement. So you do have pathway to breaking the agreement, but it reflects poorly on your high school guidance counselor and can negatively impact future applicants from your high school. So please only ED if you are 100% comfortable with what the NPC has shown.
We’d love to talk to you and your daughter about Tulsa. Rice and UTD are great schools both. TU is more similar to Rice in that we have broad programs in the liberal arts, social sciences, nursing and allied health professions, very strong pre-med, great business programs. We play D1 football and basketball plus 17 sports. It is a very beautiful campus. 1/3 of students are National Merit, and we have about 750-850 per class. And NMSF is a full tuition plus room/board.
About 1 in 6 NMSF nationally apply to TU, and we now have more per capita than any university in the nation and I think we have more in absolute terms in our freshmen class (despite being only 750) than any other university (Alabama and Florida have about 200 usually and we have 250). So check us out! I’d love to show you around.
Brad Carson - the Pres of UTulsa.
ED means “in exchange for an early decision from school, I am agreeing to attend if you accept me.”
This helps the school manage enrollment and it saves the student from applying to many schools.
Your D can apply to Rice RD if you want to compare offers.
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