Rice or WashU - Which one should I apply ED to?

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i know you’re supposed to have like a dream school if you apply early decision but i have two dream schools and i’m trying to improve my chances of getting in so…i have to pick one. i visited both, which was supposed to provide me clarity over which one i wanted to early decision to, but actually did not at all. so now i turn to the internet.

washu

pros

  • access to st. louis (was here very briefly but the arch was pretty cool)
  • 79% of classes have <30 students, avg class size is 24 (small class sizes are very important to me)
  • housing available all four years (first 2 years living on campus is required)
  • you can get funds to make unpaid internships paid, which is cool
  • loved the underpass where they have all the painted club announcements!! probably my favorite thing
  • finding it pretty hard to get helpful info on this but it seems their humanities programs are stronger than those at rice
  • better chance of getting in if applying early (a lot of their incoming class comes from early rounds)
  • my mom went here
  • ampersand programs (they have one on rome! that’s pretty cool)

cons

  • about 7500 undergrads (maybe it’s just cause i go to a small school but that feels like a lot of people??)
  • the campus was nice but felt more open than rice, which i’m not sure i loved
  • food was mediocre (this doesn’t actually matter to me lol)

also i don’t think this makes any difference at all but i’m interested in law & washu has a law school and rice doesn’t

rice

pros

  • residential college system. seems fun! although their whole presentation was kinda about that & not about academics (but maybe they assume you’ve already looked through all of that stuff on their website???)
  • in houston (big city but also lots of opportunities)
  • seems like they have a lot of traditions, which i really like
  • avg class size is 14 (i prefer this size over washu’s avg)
  • loved the campus! they were both pretty but i preferred rice
  • liked rice more than washu immediately after having visited both (but my opinion has changed)
  • access to gym classes included in tuition

cons

  • rice is definitely more of a stem-focused institution than humanities (though washu is too tbh)
  • housing not guaranteed all four years (not a big problem, but i’d be worried i was missing out on on-campus things)
  • early decision doesn’t really give you an advantage (13-15% admit rate)
  • more of a question but like. do people make friends outside of their residential colleges??? it kinda seems like you’re stuck in that group only

i feel like, as a 17 year old, i am not qualified to be making life-altering decisions like binding agreements on where i go to college lol. but i’ll be happy wherever i go! even if it’s not rice or washu. everything’s gonna be fine.

anyways, if anyone has any insights on any of this (woah that’s a lot of “any”), i would love to hear them! thanks :slight_smile:

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Decisions, decisions - two great schools.

  1. Legacy (if mom graduated) could help at WashU
  2. You seem to prefer Rice and even after your visit, it stood out - so that tells me Rice
  3. Rice is very strong in the humanities - as is WUSTL

Do you have any budget issues? These schools are $350-400K.

Let’s step back - what are your stats - does it even make sense to apply to these two - as far as GPA, test score, what kind of classes have you taken?

It’s really preference - weather, for example. As for on campus, it sounds great and the village at WUSTL is really nice, but many kids prefer to move off campus so that might be ok at Rice - although they note they’re able to take care of most who want to stay on.

I’m wondering if your average class size at WUSTL is correct. If you look at the CDS section I2, they show 529 classes of 2-9 students, 739 of 10-19. There’s 1956 classes total so that’s under half and more than a quarter are 2-9. Of course, whether you get those is likely major or demand dependent. I can’t find the formal figure though.

Rice’s CDS isn’t showing available so no way to compare.

One last thing - law school - irrelevant - in fact, I’d argue it’s irrelevant whether you go to WashU or Mizzou. What will matter are your grades, LSAT, and today more are getting work experience before going - but top law schools take kids from well over 100 colleges - running the gamut from Ivy to directional.

Pick one - they’re both great but make sure your family can afford them and make sure they want to. In other words, a WUSTL/Rice capable student will have opportunities at half the price and less - if that matters to your family. You also likely give up the potential to get merit aid with an ED.

But based on your write up, it does seem Rice fits you better and i would not worry about the humanities programs.

I would though, make sure you are in range statistically.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

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So just for the record, I am skeptical ED helps as much as some people seem to think from looking at the statistics, indeed in many individual cases I think it actually makes no difference to the outcome, so I do not actually agree you need to ED at one. I also would not pick where to apply ED, if you do, based on ED statistics.

That said–my takeaway is you might mostly prefer Rice, but are concerned about the STEM focus. So I looked up their latest NCES data for a comparison:

It looks like Rice had something like 58 primary graduating majors in what I would consider Humanities, 32 in Arts. It had 110 in Social Sciences, 76 of which were some form of Econ, so 34 non-Econ in that grouping, and 52 in Psychology.

For WashU, I got 122 in Humanities, 111 in Arts, 242 in Social Sciences, 84 of which were Econ so 159 non-Econ, and 155 in Psychology.

Now WashU had 1868 graduating students to 1053 for Rice. Still, this does feel to me like even accounting for the overall size difference, WashU’s total student community with these sorts of majors is notably more prominent. The biggest differences were actually in Arts, non-Econ Social Sciences, and Psychology, but Humanities was a significant difference as well.

I note I like to break out Econ separately just because as illustrated here, it can be a larger or smaller component of Social Sciences proportionately, and Econ students can also be a variable mix. In this case, WashU actually has a substantial undergrad business program (an entire school with 211 primary majors), and Rice does not, and I suspect some of the “extra” Econ majors proportionately at Rice were at least in part attributable to this difference.

OK, so does this mean you definitely should choose WashU over Rice? No, not at all. I just think it is some verification this is a real factor to consider.

Of course if this was enough of a factor, maybe neither of the above? Like we have no other context, but there are many other great colleges and universities for someone with non-STEM/non-pre-professional academic interests. I think WashU and Rice also have other valuable qualities, but so do many of these other options.

And to circle back around, because in fact there are so many other options, I would really urge not feeling like you have to pick an ED school. Like, you can apply to a robust list–which you should be doing anyway, because lots of highly qualified people get rejected ED by both of these institutions–and see where you actually get offers. You can then maybe do post-offer visits to a select few, and finally decide. You’ll never know for sure what the “best” choice would be, but you can at least go with the offer that is most exciting to you at that point.

Anyway, that’s my thinking. Full disclosure, I have an S24 at WashU, he is likely to end up a premed but also a Classics major, and it has been a great school . . . for him. But he didn’t apply ED, even though he strongly considered it for ED2. In part that was because he was deferred by Yale REA, but also because he just wasn’t ready to be sure that WashU was his second choice. And it all worked out, and I think that happens way more than people realize. And even if he hadn’t ended up at WashU, he had other great choices available.

Again, point is I think you may be putting too much pressure on this ED decision, and it is coming too early for you. With a good overall list, it isn’t really that high stakes in my view, and the right answer might simply be none of the above.

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On the flipside, a smaller program could mean more attention…

If one is lucky enough to get in, this is a heads you win, tails you win.

Rice, too, has an undergrad b school but much younger - b4 they had a well known MBA. I think there’s a lot of similarities here.

I wonder if the pull of mom is the pull to WashU - after reading the write up. But OP is their own person.

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I can make some comments about Rice since my S25 is a freshman there this year (He visited Wash U and didn’t like it at all, but I didn’t go on that visit trip, so I can’t make any comparisons!).

With Rice, we definitely get the vibe that although there are many STEM kids (my kid is an applied math major), there are plenty of people studying other things as well. In terms of being able to live on campus all four years, the vibe we are getting is that while some students do get “bumped” off campus when they would have rather stayed on campus, the number is on the small side, at least in some residential colleges. In my kid’s Residential College, they haven’t “bumped” anyone in at least 3 years apparently - enough people chose to move off campus that everyone who wanted to stay could. There are ways students can improve their chances of getting to stay on campus by getting involved in leadership roles, committees, etc of their college.

My S25 is definitely meeting people outside his residential college. I would say for him it’s mostly people he is meeting through student organizations. In asking him who he hangs out with, he says it is pretty split between students from all over he knows from an organization he is getting pretty involved with, and friends from his college. He’s starting to get to know a bit people in his classes, but the one class he would really like to form a study group for has mostly students that are 2nd year or older (he thinks he might be the only freshman), so that’s been a challenge. But I’m sure as he settles into more major classes he will also be developing friendships there.

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Based on the information shared by OP in this thread, this is purely a personal decision.

Slight advantage to WashUStL for the presence of an on-campus law school as OP may get to take, or audit, a law school class and can easily speak with law students if that remains OP’s intended path.

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I’ve had 2 grandkids at Rice, one a recent graduate and the other currently at Rice. Neither are/were STEM. One was Econ/Environmental Studies and the other Business. One also was strongly interested in Wash U mainly because of the strong sense of community fostered by its own housing program, but ultimately chose Rice. Both are out of state.

To answer some of your questions:p about Rice:

  1. While Rice has an historically strong reputation in STEM, combined enrollment in Engineering + Architecture is about 1900 out of a total undergrad enrollment of 4800. So, there are lots of kids doing other things. And to balance the STEM focus for some, Rice also has an excellent Music School.
  2. The Baker Institute is a major asset for pre-law students. Check it out.
  3. Both of my grandkids spent a summer studying at the London School of Economics, set up by Rice. One attended on a grant with tuition paid for by Rice.
  4. Students do have a life outside their residential college. Most of your time, after all, is spent in class and with course assignments, so that creates plenty of interaction outside the res college. And students can attend events at other res colleges or eat in other dining rooms.
  5. Both lived off campus junior year but stayed involved with their in campus res colleges. The off campus apartments which are typically rented by Rice students are very close to campus - almost like an extension of campus. So, staying involved with campus life is easy. The off campus housing is closer to campus than on campus housing is at some large state flagship universities.
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Both of these schools were on my daughter’s short list and we visited both. No bad decision here. She liked them both a lot. She also thought it came down to the intangibles as academically they were very similar. For her she was looking at extracurriculars (access to better dance programs), weather and ease of travel to and from home.

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As one form of perspective, you can use IPEDS information to compare the student presence in humanities fields such as literature, history, classics and philosophy:

College Navigator - Washington University in St Louis College Navigator - Washington University in St Louis

College Navigator - Rice University College Navigator - Rice University

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How does this information help to answer the question about which humanities program is better?

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Parent of a Rice senior here - I can’t really speak to WashU at all (I’m friends with an undergrad alum and a law school alum, but from many years ago in both cases), but here are my thoughts re: Rice.

  • I think you’ll have chances to meet people outside of your college. D22 has a great group of college friends and has been involved in her college’s leadership structure, but she also has friends from clubs and a campus religious group.
  • Rice does have fewer Humanities majors vs. STEM, but the quality is very high. D22 is a Humanities major and has been raving about a particular upper-level class with only seven students, but they are so passionate about the topic that all seven have stayed after class to continue the discussion multiple times this semester.
  • Housing for four years depends on your college - some have more room than others. D22 actually stayed on campus all four years due to a medical situation (long story), but it is sometimes possible to do so anyway. If you do go off, you are virtually guaranteed the chance to come back as a senior, which people almost always do.
  • St. Louis vs. Houston is a wash - both are large and interesting cities with plenty to do, and both have humid weather that I absolutely hate. :slight_smile:
  • Law school is also a wash, as no admission committee is going to question the quality of your education from either place. GPA and LSAT will be more important.
  • As you may have gathered from your visit, Rice is a fairly nerdy place; D22 once exclaimed with excitement, “Dad, it’s like everyone here is neurodivergent!!!” (thus also revealing that Rice students are the kind of people who think about neurodivergence on a random Tuesday). My sense of WashU from afar is that the student body is a bit wealthier on average and a bit more mainstream in tastes and sensibilities, though it’s large enough to find one’s people.

In the end, these are both great choices and there’s no wrong answer. I’d go with your gut feeling.

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You really can’t go wrong with either- two great schools! I’m a huge fan of WashU, but it sounds like you might prefer RIce a little? Both schools have EDI & EDII. Why not apply EDI to Rice and if you get denied you can apply EDII to WashU. I think applying ED at these schools is a great idea to increase your chance of admission (assuming you can afford it.) Good luck!

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