I happen to agree with that statement. I just don’t agree that it leads to the conclusion that gay marriage should not be recognized. In fact, I think it tends to support recognition of gay marriage because as far as I’m concerned, the second best environment in which to raise children is a family headed by two people of the same sex in a monogomous relationship. Unfortunately, there are lots and lot of kids who aren’t getting a shot at either #1 or #2, and one thing that’s getting in the way of #2 is the ban on gay marriage.</p>
<p>Logosprincipal, your post is bumper-sticker level heckling because you make no effort to explain why one opinion should be considered as valid as another. NAMBLA supports sexual relations between men and boys; I disagree and I’m prepared to explain why. Do you claim to see no difference between our positions?</p>
<p>"It is not healthy for a childs development to be raised by 2 gay parents. " </p>
<p>One can’t make such a blanket statement. Children are raised by individuals. For me anything DOES NOT go. If you want to have kids and be together? Great. Get married and accept the responsibilities that go with the rights.</p>
<p>But it realy is not healthy for a child to be raised by two gay parents. Its not just about making sure their kid does his HW and goes to college, but there is a pyscoological upbringging to. and two gay parents cannot do that properly,</p>
<p>"It is not healthy for a childs development to be raised by 2 gay parents. " </p>
<p>You have any evidence for this? Evidence that controls for the fact that society doesn’t treat gay parents like hetero parents?</p>
<p>I think it’s much more likely that because of discrimination a kid with gay parents is more likely to run into discrimination themselves, but that has nothing to do with the quality of parenting he’s getting and everything to do with society. I think there are parts of the country where no one blinks an eye if a kid has parents of the same sex and it simply isn’t an issue.</p>
<p>“But it realy is not healthy for a child to be raised by two gay parents. Its not just about making sure their kid does his HW and goes to college, but there is a pyscoological upbringging to. and two gay parents cannot do that properly,”</p>
<p>I don’t agree. I think a mother with a stepfather is worse for kids.</p>
<p>“But it realy is not healthy for a child to be raised by two gay parents”</p>
<p>Not to make you feel like I’m slaming you but… How do you know for absolute certain? This is your opinion and like certain parts of the body, everybody’s got one. When people declare in absolutes, they are often wrong. </p>
<p>Someone being gay doesn’t reduce their parenting skills, nor does being hetero increase them. </p>
<p>Again, I’m not calling you a homophobe or bigot, it’s just such a broad generalization can be easily challenged and proven to be incorrect. </p>
<p>As far as phsycological upbringing, a heterosexual parenting or upbringing is no lock on “normal” mental health. </p>
<p>Just as my good friend FS, (bless her heart) I am questioning the absolutes you use in your statements, that is not calling you or her a homophobe or bigot, just a bit inexperienced. That ole saying “now I’ve seen everything” really is true. Most of us use that term a couple hundred times in our lifetimes and you will too.</p>
<p>Kluge,
I didn’t spell out the arguments that some people give in favor of group “marriages” for lack of time and because I assume that the people on this board have heard them. They include: more people to help with childcare, more support-givers in the “marriage”, more variety, built-in same-sex friendships, etc. My point is that people who favor group marriage can easily say, “You don’t like group marriage? Fine, don’t have one, but give us the freedom to construct our family as we see fit.”</p>
<p>Ask the kids what they would rather have. Go to a high school or a middle school and ask them if they have a preference gay or straight parents and see what they say</p>
<p>Can we all agree that one certain way that children learn is by following an adult example?</p>
<p>If we accept that gay couples can be good parents, and that a child will not necessarily turn out to be gay – this is, mind you, just IN CASE the environment has any influence at all on development – realizing that the popular perception is that one is BORN gay not made. But, just for the sake of argument, do you suppose the example set by gay “parents” might just say to the young impressionable: “See, we love eachother and it is okay for you to love somebody else just the way we do.” That sounds pretty good to a toddler, doesn’t it? Conversely, if they tried to downplay or hide their unnatural relationship in front of “their” child, would the child then WANT that very same relationship with another precisely because it is taboo? Either way, the child gets the short end.</p>
<p>When it comes to a toddler its very hard to explain something like homosexuality to him because its soo unatural in its very essense and so unusual to a small kid.</p>
<p>But its not about whether the gay parents are good people who can make a good example its about having a father figure and a mother figure to mold the childs brain in a way that two moms or two dads simply cannot.</p>
<p>Logosprincipal, try to pay attention to the argument at hand: the legal recognition of gay marriages. No one says that two men can’t go to their local gay church and have a wedding ceremony; the issue is whether the marriage will be legally recognized by the state, and the attendent rights and responsibilities of that status afforded and enforced. None of your points address the legal status of the group marriage participants. They can have a ceremony, live together, etc. all they want. Doing that isn’t banned, but the relationship isn’t given legal recognition which provides for a specified set of legal rights and responsibilities for the participants (which, when you think about it, would be a very complicated and difficult task for the participants in a group association of any sort.)</p>
<p>Leanid: the only problem with your carefully constructed argument is that it’s doesn’t correspond to what actually happens in the real world. Children of gays are no more likely to be gay than the children of straight parents. Golani, again, you’re just pulling this stuff out of your “opinion.” You have no factual basis for the claims you make, they just seem right to you so you assert them as fact.</p>
<p>Nope, its pretty much fact that a father figure and mother figure are more beneficial than two gay parents. I am serioous when i tell you to ask your doctors about this, consult studies on it etc…</p>
<p>And although i have no study that says that kids would rather live with straight parents, I think we both do know what kids would choose</p>
<p>Most gay/lesbian couples who would choose to live in a committed and legally recognized relationship and who chose to raise children, would need to do so through adoption (barring things like artificial insemination for women…). I am quite sure that any child would chose to live with gay parents who are in a stable and committed, loving relationship rather than be moved from foster home to foster home.</p>
<p>CMM, I concur. It’s all about stable and loving homes, and that is what kids need, regardless of whether that love is provided by two women, two men, or a man and a woman.</p>
<p>kluge,
The argument at hand when I joined the conversation was whether group “marriages” would follow the legalization of homosexual “marriages” and I assumed that you were adding to the conversation at hand with your post #181 by saying that 2 people in a partnership were preferrable to another number. Maybe you were just orating and I made the mistake of thinking that you were addressing the argument at hand.</p>
<p>"If we accept that gay couples can be good parents, and that a child will not necessarily turn out to be gay – this is, mind you, just IN CASE the environment has any influence at all on development – realizing that the popular perception is that one is BORN gay not made. But, just for the sake of argument, do you suppose the example set by gay “parents” might just say to the young impressionable: “See, we love eachother and it is okay for you to love somebody else just the way we do.” That sounds pretty good to a toddler, doesn’t it? "</p>
<p>Funny, that looked like the LONG end to me. But I have far too many committed gay friends with heterosexual kids to see this as a problem.</p>