<p>kluge - Could it be that due to societal pressures at this point, where being gay is by and large rejected, that at least some of those kids raised with gay parents will pretend to be straight just for acceptance sake. We all know how important that is to adolescents…</p>
<p>Any possibility at all?</p>
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<p>Great point. I think it’s a bit naive to think that toddlers naturally know that they cannot like a member of the same sex. The distinction that same sex relationships are <em>bad</em> is made once a child can understand concepts and has been told by an authority that society or religion has made it evil.</p>
<p>“why do they do that, my mommy loves daddy. Why is this man kissing that other man. eww thats strange”</p>
<p>maybe thats how a todler would respond</p>
<p>mathmom - It is not all about crunching numbers.</p>
<p>so is the Constance Rice that Norm is( was apparently) married to, the same Constance Rice that is Condelezzas cousin?</p>
<p>They are both very supportive of gay rights including gay marriage</p>
<p>You don’t need to get into detailed descriptions with a toddler!
that reminds me of the old joke about a 9 year oldboy going to his dad and asking him where he came from.
After a sputtered start, dad goes into long detailed scientific explanation of puberty, conception and birth
When he pauses to take a breath his befuddled son replies" I only wanted to know if I came from Chicago like you?"</p>
<p>actually kids are pretty accepting of other people when they are brought up in an environment that is.
Whether racial/economic/sexual differences, it is allthe same to them</p>
<p>My kids went to schools where boys and girls played together- one of my younger daughters best friends was a boy who loved to play dressup
He would wear high heels- a cowboy hat and a stole- while he went around to the other activities.
another boy liked to wear clips in his hair.</p>
<p>My daughter wanted to be a boy- ( my younger daughter) because she didn’t like all the pressure to be “pretty” that she apparently felt that girls had. She chopped her hair off at the scalp and wore boys clothes for years.
One of her best friends as preschooler, had a mom who had her in modeling shows and beauty pagents, not a problem to have a friend that was into that, but she wouldn’t touch it with a 10 ft pole</p>
<p>( I have no idea how I am going to get her picture taken for senior year next year- she is now gorgeous,and hasn’t cut her own hair for years- but she still hates to get her picture taken)</p>
<p>“gay “parents” might just say to the young impressionable: “See, we love eachother and it is okay for you to love somebody else just the way we do.” That sounds pretty good to a toddler, doesn’t it?”</p>
<p>Sounds pretty good to me, too. How again is the child getting the short end of the stick here?</p>
<p>By the way, why did you put the phrase ‘gay “parents”’ in quotation marks? If a lesbian gives birth to a child, you believe she is not its mother?</p>
<p>“eww thats strange”</p>
<p>If you grow up seeing it your whole life, it ISN’T strange.</p>
<p>BTW, I HAVE responded to the question about what set of parents children would choose. I have said that it doesn’t matter, because in this country, unlike China, we don’t require that parents pass some governmental test of worthiness before they are allowed to have children. We don’t dispense marriage licenses based on our analysis about whether someone would really want to be born into a trailer park, or whether someone would want to be raised by Madonna (I sure wouldn’t!). We recognize that deciding whether to have children is a fundamental right.</p>
<p>It absolutely isn’t an iota strange. When my ten year old saw “Rent”, including the two women kissing, or the two men, it didn’t phase her in the slightest. It wasn’t gross, or weird, but love stories that were part of the fabric of a great musical.</p>
<p>She knows men can love men, and women can love women. So what? It’s no big deal at all, because NO ONE HAS MADE IT A BIG DEAL. If you harp on it and make it weird, then maybe gay relationships will be that way to your kids. If you accept that it is a part of life, and are open to it, so will your children.</p>
<p>“The distinction that same sex relationships are <em>bad</em> is made once a child can understand concepts and has been told by an authority that society or religion has made it evil.”</p>
<p>brand - So you are saying that what one is told in one’s formative years DOES affect how one forms concepts. By saying that, aren’t you also saying that environment plays a role in development regarding one’s acceptance or rejection of homosexuality?</p>
<p>And, it is not too far a stretch to then have one engage in (or not, depending on whether one accepts or rejects) such activity, perhaps out of curiosity at first, if one chooses to engage, and then figuring, well, why not, other fools have done it…</p>
<p>leanid, </p>
<p>What is it you’re afraid of? That your children will experiment sexually? Hey they will and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.</p>
<p>AM: Ironic you accuse golani of not “providing some evidence instead of just presenting your juvenile opinions as fact.” I have not seen one instance in this entire discussion in which you have provided “fact,” or indeed any references to how you have formed your so-called reasoned, unemotional, looking-at-all-sides-of-the-argument opinion.</p>
<p><…deciding whether to have children is a fundamental right.> (Hanna)</p>
<p>That’s where you lose me entirely.</p>
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<p>Most certainly. Society has a profound affect on what its members accept and reject, particularly when they are young and take what is said as truth. That is not the same as saying having gay parents will make one gay (as has been demonstrated by evidence here). I believe it is important for people to not hate themselves if they are gay, and obviously growing up in a family where these things are not condemned will allow you to make your own decisions.</p>
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<p>Why not? If you grow up in an accepting household that doesn’t vehemently condemn something as innocent as sexuality, you are certainly going to have an easier time realizing what you want in life as you are not afraid to ask yourself the question.</p>
<p>Would you believe any evidence I provided anyway?</p>
<p>The vast majority of children’s advocacy organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics,10 the National Association of Social Workers,11 and the American Psychological Association (APA),12 recognize that gay and lesbian parents are just as good as heterosexual parents, and that children thrive in gay- and lesbian-headed families. One APA publication reports, “not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents.”13 </p>
<p>10 Perrin, E. C., & The Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health. (2002). Technical report:
Co-parent or second-parent adoption by same-sex parents. Pediatrics, 109(2), 341–344. </p>
<p>11 Ferrero, E., Freker, J. and Foster, T. (2002). Too high a price: The case against restricting gay parenting. New York: ACLU Lesbian and Gay Rights Project. Available at <a href=“http://www.lethimstay.com/pdfs/gayadoptionbook.pdf[/url]”>http://www.lethimstay.com/pdfs/gayadoptionbook.pdf</a> </p>
<p>12 Patterson, C. J. (1995). Lesbian and gay parenting: A resource for psychologists. Washington: American Psychological Association. Available at <a href=“http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html[/url]”>Internal Server Error;
<p>For those of you who are afraid that bringing up children in a household which includes gay or lesbian parents would some how “infuence” the kids to become gay…I have a question:</p>
<p>At what point in your life did you decide that you would be heterosexual? </p>
<p>I suspect that you cannot identify such a time as you are MADE that way. </p>
<p>And homosexuals are “made” differently.</p>
<p>One observation: a few of the remarks I have read on this board sound a lot like remarks made by those who would continue to regard blacks as inferior. Not a lot of reason; just echoing strains of "that is how it is/always has been and I don’t want “them” around me. Thankfully, I don’t hear that kind of hateful speech much any more. Except with regards to this issue. </p>
<p>So very sad.</p>
<p>FYI: the studies that show that children do not thrive in gay households are derived from the hypothesis that being in a two-parent gay household is analogous to being in a single-parent household. (Please see “FYI” before attacking… just pointing out the origins of the theory.)</p>
<p>There have bene just as many studies that show that it is better to be brought up in family with one dad and one mom. I really do not want to go unearthing all this information i understand its hard to believe me if i dont prove it but im just saying it like it is.</p>
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<p>Take it up with the Supreme Court. You don’t have to agree with it, but I’m stating the current law. The government can interfere with that right only for compelling reasons, like when you physically endanger your kids.</p>
<p>Allmusic, let me add to that list the American Psychiatric Association, which has officially stated its position that allowing gay marriage would be beneficial to mental health. See <a href=“http://www.psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/200502.pdf[/url]”>http://www.psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/200502.pdf</a> for an explanation and citations.</p>
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<p>Are you suggesting that the reason you haven’t sampled, and then stayed with, homosexuality, is because you were taught that it is wrong?</p>
<p>That’s surprising to me. I’ve never sampled it or stayed with it because I’ve had crushes on boys from the time I was in kindergarten. I saw Harrison Ford in “The Empire Strikes Back” when I was five, and I was a goner. Wouldn’t you have been looking at Princess Leia?</p>
<p>Agree on Harrison Ford. :)</p>
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<p>I agree completely and think it’s great that your name is churchmusicmom. 
Take a look back people. Consider the social movements that have taken place in America in the last century. Can you point out one that was wrong or detrimental to society? I doubt it…in fact, I believe these are all reflective of humanity’s progress towards getting rid of the old belief that different is wrong. </p>
<p>Set aside your cultural and religious beliefs (easier said than done). As a human being, please explain to me how letting two people marry is dangerous to the social fabric. I think there are far too many real problems out there for everyone to dwell on something as insignificant as this.</p>
<p>I should not be forced to recognize them as a married couple.</p>
<p>You cannot take cultural and religious beliefs out of this matter. Nor can you take the historic rooots of marriage out either.</p>
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<p>Because that is your only defense. Any statement you hear is immediately nullified, in your view, by the fact that same-sex marriage is wrong. I am not asking you to give up your beliefs. I am drawing a comparison. As churchmom’s post suggested, look back at slavery and the inferiority of black people. For many years, that was the cultural status quo - “the way that it is.” People finally wisened up to the fact that, if you take off your cultural glasses which blindly tell you “this person is inferior” or “this is wrong,” you are unable to defend your reasoning.</p>
<p>I am suggesting you view the issue with a truly open mind and ask yourself: what is the damage that will be done here if these people are allowed to marry?</p>
<p>I find it strange that you are unable to answer that question. Oh wait…nevermind. I expected that.</p>