Hey everyone,
I’m trying to decide between Rice University and UVA for breaking into investment banking, and I’d love some input. A bit about my situation: I’m really not picky about being in Houston IB vs. NYC IB — I’m more focused on getting my foot in the door and making it work. Rice is also offering me more money, so that’s definitely a plus.
Any advice on how these two compare when it comes to breaking into the IB world? Thanks.
Congrats on these acceptances!
How do you feel about the secondary admission process for McIntire at UVA? Obviously there is risk to that, because it’s selective and holistic admissions. Meaning…everything is not in your control in terms of gaining entry, even if you have a 4.0 GPA.
I assume students can get to IB if they aren’t in McIntire, but I expect it’s a bit harder…hopefully catcherinthetoast can comment on that. What would your plan B major be at UVA if you didn’t get into McIntire?
All in all, I favor direct admit (or low barrier to entry) business programs.
Have you visited both schools? Are both schools affordable for your family? (defined as requiring no loans beyond the direct student loans)
Rice would save my family 25k/yr. My secondary major at UVA is Econ + Stats. Visting both schools in April.
You might want to talk to some of the Rice business school students to find out their experience. Looks like the undergraduate business program was first launched in 2021 and is very new, although the business school itself has been around for 50years. This would mean that the first class would be seniors now and may have insight as to their plans after graduation and their internship experience.
Poets&Quants For Undergrads - Rice University Launches First Undergrad Business Degree.
Being in Houston and being an excellent school, one would think that they would have connection in energy and finance having to do with that realm.
The good thing is that it’s a direct admit unlike McIntire where, as previously mentioned, you would have to apply after your first or second year.
It sounds like McIntire is “holistic” in their approach, but the fact is, you do need a high gpa to have a greater chance of getting in. Sounds like acceptance rates are in the 50-60% range. Here’s one Reddit post from a couple years ago:
“Prerequisites and GPA are the most critical, I’ve heard 3.6/3.7 GPA for first three semester makes you a shoe in, and 3.5 is very doable.
Acceptance hovers at 50-60% because (most) students below 3.0 don’t bother applying. Of the students below a 3.5 GPA, acceptance is probably close to 30-35%”.
But another post said their child was rejected with a 3.7.
“Parent of +3.7GPA not accepted…there isn’t as much predictability as one would assume. You’ll see +3.9GPA applicants on here after acceptances go out that were denied.”
So take this with a grain of salt. And understand that it’s not direct admit. It does have a reputable program, however, which is apparently a target school for IB while Rice is a semi target (which is impressive with it being only 4 years old for undergrad!). Again take this article with a grain of salt.
So if you were my kid, I’d have to tell him/her to realize that although UVA may have an established program that’s a target in IB, you are not guaranteed into the School of Commerce. It’s difficult to predict. However, at Rice, though newer and not as reputable in business, as of right now, it is apparently a semi-target, and no secondary application is necessary. Moreover, it’s a cheaper (for you) and smaller school that can provide more attention to you, hopefully and presumably, with its strong suit likely being energy. I would recommend Rice, but the caveat being nothing is guaranteed that you will make it in IB regardless of your school.
One thought would be to consider double majoring at Rice to enhance your overall resume and knowledge. It might be a way to get your foot in the door in IB in a specific industry such as energy, oil and gas, etc?
Just a thought that might be ridiculously hard, but something to consider maybe?
Good luck and congratulations!
Just read your most recent post, you should also contact other UVA economics/stats graduates to determine whether or not they do break in IB. However, the price difference is substantial. I might still recommend heavily considering rice.
Rice career stats are very impressive. You might ask them to drill deeper, specific to your interest.
Here’s the UVA board. I set to Econ. But you can McIntire.
One thing about Rice is the residential college system. Not a single school out there can assure you a position type. So you might look deeper at the experience you’ll have - because this can be the best time of your life. I’d have to guess your desired outcome is certainly possible from both but let each career center provide you detailed info. But think even beyond (the experience you prefer…and $$ save if important to your family’s well being) because what you want today will likely not be what you want tomorrow.
Good luck
@Mystics and @Mwfan1921 great posts! I entirely agree with your annalysis and conclusions. I will try to avoid being repetitive.
You have been admitted to UVA but not McIntire. Traditionally non M UVA students had been at a moderate disadvantage for full time jobs but given the prior time line all students were on equal footing for summer internships. Now that M’s program is a full 3 years those distinctions will become more pronounced making UVA for IB riskier in my opinion. Hi risk and high potential reward but why take the risk with a great alternative option.
Rice on the other hand will just now start to see the full benefits of investing in their business programs while their IB alumni network will ramp up quickly. Rice is a world class institution that appears totally committed to becoming an IB feeder and is putting their money where their mouth is. A further possible advantage for Rice you may want to explore is the availability of internships in the Houston area. Every bank I can think of has a Houston office giving Rice a geographic advantage.
I would caution you not to use prior placement data in making your decision for these two schools at this time.
As mentioned, Rice’s program is relatively new and just starting to place graduates and UVA just changed the time line for McIntire.
Given the unique, idiosyncratic and ever changing nature of IB recruiting please carefully consider the level of expertise and first hand experience of the sources of information you base your decisions upon.
Good luck and congratulations!! Here is an IB dedicated AMA that might be of interest.
Thank you for the detailed response. My main concern about attending Rice is that I’ve noticed most of their placements in investment banking sectors outside of oil and gas are diversity candidates. Since I don’t fall into that category, I’m worried I might be pigeonholed into the oil and gas sector in Houston. This is making me lean towards UVA instead. Do you have any thoughts on this?
You have no idea what the job landscape will look like in over four years when you graduate.
That is a fair concern but I would consider some of the broader IB opportunities that might be available in the Houston area.
1- Oil and Gas franchises tends to be broader and include energy and renewables (which continues to grow). This includes a great deal of project finance which is a highly transferable and in demand skill set.
2- Energy will also tend to have a lot of significant infra structure IB opportunities.
3- Many IBs have regional CRE franchises.
4- If interested in trading several leading commodity trading firms (Trafigura, Cargill, Glencore) are based or have trading operations in Houston. Staff from these areas are heavily recruited back to NY CIBs.
5- Several CIBs have their commodity teams based or staffed in part in Houston.
6- Several CIBs have their Food and Agriculture teams based or staffed in part in Houston (or Dallas).
Several of these opportunities will put you in direct contact with large sponsor groups and direct lenders. These tend to be some of the most nuanced, thoughtful and successful financial organizations in todays finance world. Great way to learn the business, build a deal list and make contacts.
Not to mention you can still apply for other roles just like if you were at UVA. One preferred path would allow you to apply and intern locally as a rising senior and then leverage that into a sector and location that you prefer. IBs don’t like to loose talent who they have invested time training. The hardest part is often getting in the door.
I don’t think UVA is an inherently bad choice, it just strikes me as a significant risk you don’t need to take given the limited if any upside vs Rice.
Just curious - how do you know Rice’s placements are diversity candidates ?
As you know, many companies, mine included, have this - but how would you know this is happening at Rice ? How would you know the ‘diversity’ of specific students and jobs they took ?
I looked on LinkedIn and it was very very hard to find a non-diversity candidate place in NYC. It might be related back to the school having a much more diverse student body than UVA. I even talked with a student entering IB from Rice and she said that the only pipeline they have to NYC is a diversity pipeline with Citi.
Ok thx. That, by the way, may be at other schools too. And there’s lots of firms. Smaller firms. But ultimately companies hire. And schools can’t control that.
I’m not in IB but my company is similar. Or has been the past few years - from exterior hires and internal promotions.
No one knows what the future will be like though.
Good luck.
The school is very diverse. It has more Asian students than white students. Also, because Texas in general has a large Latino population, Rice attracts a lot of top hispanic students as well.
They are making a push to create a bigger pipeline to NYC. However, that’ll probably take time and if your goal is to work in NY, Rice may not be the place for you.
They are investing a ton of money into the undergraduate business school with a new building and more resources. IMO, the best part of the business program is it’s under the radar (for now) and the undergraduate business classes are taught by their MBA professors.
I agree that I see they are making a big push to NYC. NYC is my top choice post-grad, as I have a lot of family there, with Atlanta being second. I do see Rice growing well, but since summer analyst recruiting takes place sophomore spring for IB, it might be to late for me to benefit.
You’ve done a ton of research and have a good grasp of the pros and cons.
IMO, I’d trust your instincts and go where you feel is your best opportunity.
I am assuming you are aware of these statistics. McIntire has an approximate 50% acceptance rate. They also describe the admissions criteria as holistic.
With McIntire’s program now a full 3 years banks like mine are recruiting almost exclusively amongst McIntire students when considering UVA students.
Meaning you have a 50/50 shot of getting an acceptance into a program whose exact criteria you can’t control or define and if you fall short your chances of IB basically disappear less than 18 months into your college career.
I wish you well and it sounds like you are fully aware but I highlight this for future readers considering similar options.
Here is the holistic description…
Adding additional holistic factors..unstated they want to try and balance gender the best they can. They are also looking to build a diverse class:
Our Commitment to Diversity
At McIntire, we are intentional in our recruitment of underserved and underrepresented students within the context of the business landscape. We seek to admit students with a diversity of thought, backgrounds, and experiences, and we offer dedicated programs and resources to help foster an inclusive student community.
The point is this secondary admission process is not 100% in the student’s control.
OP should also research the acceptance rates of some of the key finance clubs. At UVA, some of these clubs have single digit acceptance rates. I am less familiar with the clubs at Rice and their acceptance criteria.
At Rice, there are several different IB/consulting clubs - some more competitive than others.
They also host many coffee chats and networking events. There are students who attend many (all of them). It takes a lot of time and effort to position yourself for a future internship/job offer. That’s what Ive been told.
Yes, this is true at any school…even the IB target schools (she did not attend UVA or Rice.) The networking is the key. My D had 90 or so networking zooms when she was going thru the process, starting summer after freshman year. This was in addition to going to panels and such that her school offered, but in-person stuff was cut short by Covid. Programming by the companies, and interviews start happening sophomore year. She ultimately landed an internship for the summer after junior year (in the spring of soph year) and now works at that same company.
