<p>I think this whole ordeal may have damaged Jonathan Martin psychologically to the point that it may be hard for him to function in an NFL locker room, even a normal one. And as I understand it, he was a marginal player. Offensive line is something that typically takes a few years to develop into a decent player, and Martin never had a decent environment to do that. </p>
<p>Incidentally, this is one of the few forums that is favorable to Martin and doesn’t take Incognito’s side. Generally, people don’t understand what hazing in a group situation is like. Of course, Martin tried to participate in the culture and be Incognito’s “friend”/little brother. However, most people don’t understand that. I think Incognito doesn’t even understand that he was abusive. </p>
<p>One thing this unfortunate mess shows is how much luck plays into all our lives, whether we realize it or not. If Martin had been drafted by a team that had real leadership, instead of one ruled by bullies, his story would have been different. He may still have suffered from depression, but would have had a better chance for career success.</p>
<p>Also interesting that 3 teams have taken a chance on known troublemaker Incognito, but people wonder whether Michael Sam will be too much of a distraction to team dynamics. </p>
<p>“Incidentally, this is one of the few forums that is favorable to Martin and doesn’t take Incognito’s side.”</p>
<p>Well, I guess I live on a different planet than you. On my planet, the national media (except for a few pro football players themselves) has been overwhelmingly sympathetic to poor John Martin, the centerpiece of the “bullying scandal”. </p>
<p>I have no brief for Incognito. But as long as we are talking about this, according to the Wells report, there is no evidence that Martin even went so far as to ask him to cut it out. Instead, his FIRST move was apparently to walk out, hire a lawyer and go to the media. Can you spell litigation?</p>
<p>“any event, if I am a GM, it doesn’t matter what you think or I think. The only thing that should and does matter is what will helpthe team. And on that point I stand by my assessment.”</p>
<p>Your morals and ethics and values are crystal clear, EMM1. Put up with the vicious atmosphere created by a complete scum-of-the-earth like Incognito, because well, Incognito’s a good player and that’s all that matters. No sense of morality or what’s-the-right-thing-to-do, whatsoever. Some things are more important than winning, though I guess all you’d care about as a GM is winning. </p>
<p>Go to ESPN and read the comments after one of the stories on the Incognito/Martin fiasco. People overwhelmingly support Incognito and disparage Martin. Maybe the stories themselves are sympathetic to Martin, but it’s been lukewarm. They’ve all noted the support Incognito is getting inside the Miami locker room.</p>
<p>I think the report that just cam e out was accurate and nuanced.</p>
<p>You are right. My job is not to help poor Jonathan Martin. My job is to build a winning team. What do you think the job of a GM.</p>
<p>Now, that having been said, I wouldn’t do anything that I thought was immoral. But I have no moral responsibility for the well-being of Jonathan Martin. In any event, as I noted in an earlier post, I expect him to do just fine as a professional victim.</p>
<p>And oh, by the way, I wouldn’t hire Incognito either. Even leaving aside the question of what I might think of his behavior, it would be a public relations nightmare.</p>
<p>My take on Michael Vick is different. It seemed bizarre to me that people would go nuts about dog fighting when they are ready to forgive domestic violence (Brett Myers, a baseball player in Philadelphia,got away with an apology after punching his wife in public). But then again, I’m not a dog person. And don’t get me started on Ray Lewis.</p>
<p>Without expressing any definitive opinion on the decision to hire Michael Vick, its clear to me that the situation is entirely different from Jonathan Martin. First, everyone knew that Michael Vick was a special talent (although ultimately no coach was able to get rid of his weaknesses). More importantly for purposes of comparison, the dogfighting problem was essentially a chattering class/mainstream media driven “scandal.” It had nothing to do with his relationship with other players; although some number of players no doubt strongly disapproved of dogfighting, very few are likely to say “I don’t want to go to war with this guy because he runs a dogfighting operation.” It is the likely nature of those relationships that, in my view, have and will continue to make Jonathan Martin radioactive in the NFL. </p>
<p>Of course, one could still take the view that, as a matter of moral operation of a team, no person convicted of a felony should ever be allowed to play in the NFL. I have no strong opinion about that view. But it is not the same as the argument about Jonathan Martin.</p>
<p>Personally, I’d have a lot harder time having as a colleague someone who’d been involved in animal abuse than in having as a colleague someone who’d been the victim of bullying. </p>
<p>Ok, fine. But the problem that I believe Jonathan Martin would have in the locker is not simply that he was a “victim of bullying.” In making a decision about wanting him a place on my team, the even bigger problem is that he reacted not by even asking the person to stop (let alone demanding that he stop), but by making a conscious decision to throw the whole locker room under the bus by creating a media circus.</p>
<p>Now maybe that wouldn’t bother you. But my sense is that it bothers a great many NFL players a lot.</p>
<p>Why do you keep putting “victim of bullying” in quotes? </p>
<p>Why is the “problem” the responsibility of the victim and not the aggressor? If you steal my purse, is it my responsibility to scream or yours not to steal it in the first place? </p>
<p>I can just imagine where you stand on victims of domestic abuse or child abuse. </p>
<p>One of my pet peeves is that too many things are lumped under the heading of “bullying” these days.</p>
<p>Ok, one more time. Never once did I suggest that Jonathan Martin was responsible for Richie Incognito’s behavior. He is, however, responsible for his own actions taken in response. The Wells report (by the former head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund) is actually not very complimentary to Martin in this regard. </p>
<p>I’m not going to dignify the rest of the post with a response.</p>
<p>How about the voice of a former NFL player who describes locker rooms that self-policed themselves to keep this kind of stuff from getting out of hand?</p>
<p>The earlier linked footage of Incognito shows someone hella scarey, and completely out of control. I would not be one bit surprised to learn that he has a history of steroid abuse. I would also not be surprised to learn that his history of bullying goes waaay back. His bullying days may have started in elementary school, where he was the biggest, loudest, meanest kid on the playground, and his posse of followers primarily existed as a way to keep out of the line of fire. Many bullies live in households where they are abused (sometimes physically and psychologically) by parents with personality disorders, and their children model those behaviors at school, acting out their own rage and frustration against someone weaker than themselves because it’s the only way they ever feel empowered. If you pair this kind of history with steroid abuse, and let it fester within an organization whereby any sort of weakness engenders a group response of disdain or abandonment, it sets up a situation where victims of abuse have literally nowhere to go within that setting for help. Do you think it’s possible that none of the coaching or training staff were aware of the dynamic being played out between Incognito and Martin? Certainly, the other players knew, and yet, at no time, was Richie ever confronted and made to stop. </p>
<p>Martin never told Incognito to stop? Are you sure? And even if he did, do you think those would have been magic words? When I was the victim of relentless bullying in Jr. High School, my tormentors (there were actually several of them) were pretty brazen and open in their abuse, often doling it out in front of teachers and other school staff. No despair was greater then that which I felt watching teachers literally turn their heads the other way after having witnessed me being physically or verbally abused. And with the snickers and guffaws of my classmates echoing in my ears, I knew without a doubt that I was on my own, and NO ONE was going to step in and help me. What reason did Jonathan Martin have to believe he’d have allies within the Dolphin organization?</p>
<p>EMM, have you ever heard of the concept of simply doing the right thing - part of which is that, as a manager in a workplace, you ensure that everyone treats everyone else with respect and basic human courtesy and dignity? Or is that only relevant if someone’s a top performer, and not at all relevant if they aren’t?</p>
<p>In thinking about this situation, I think that it is important to separate the question of what one thinks about Richie Incognito and what one thinks about Jonathan Martin, particularly his future in the NFL. Unlike the residents of PC Fanaticland like Pizzagirl, I think that it is possible that people who are victims of abuse are not themselves pure as the driven snow.</p>
<p>Let’s start by reviewing the bidding. We can agree that, by the standards of society at large, Richie Incognito and his buddies mistreated Jonathan Martin by verbally abusing him. How did Martin react? According to p. 35 of the Wells report “Incognito claimed that Martin never suggested his troubles related to his treatment by his teammates–a fact that Martin did not dispute.” Now, given their complicated relationship we will never know whether asking Incognito to stop would have done any good. We do know that rather than talking to anyone related to the team, Martin decided to hire a lawyer and go to the media.</p>
<p>Fast forward to the only question that I have addressed–the laughable claims about Martin’s future in the NFL. I have basic points about that.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>With the possible exception of the Dolphins organization, no team in the NFL owes Jonathan Martin ANYTHING. Therefore, the only relevant question for a GM is whether bring on Jonathan Martin rather than someone else is likely to help his team. In making that determination, the GM appropriately considers Jonathan Martin’s response to adversity in the past.</p></li>
<li><p>Given Martin’s response to Incognito’s behavior, does anyone seriously believe that players in other locker rooms would accept Martin as a teammate–particularly since Martin essentially blindsided Incognito because (as the Wells report clearly indicates) Martin gave Incognito every reason to believe that he was his friend before turning on him in the media without warning.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Now, you can say that there were psychological reasons for this, that it was Stockholm syndrome or whatever. But that’s not the point. I don’t think that NFL players generally are likely to accept Martin as a comrade in arms after the way things went down, and I don’t think that anything that Schlereth said is inconsistent with that assessment. So, from a GM’s perspective, why would I want to take that problem on, particularly with a player who at this point looks likely to be a backup.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything unfair in this assessment. It’s not personal–it’s just business. Within the confines of basic moral principles, the GMs loyalty has to be to his team, not to Jonathan Martin, however unfairly he might have been treated by Richie Incognito or anyone else. </p>
<p>Jon Martin seems like a pretty decent dude. He put up with a lot of abuse and instead of fighting back, he walked away. To my way of thinking, that was a reasonable decision. He had options and he chose the higher road. </p>
<p>The greater tragedy, to me, is the abuse of the assistant trainer who was subjected to racial taunts on a regular basis,in a very public way, by Incognito (a psychopath), Pouncey (public supporter of Aaron Hernandez), and John Jerry ( a morbidly obese, barely functioning moron). The trainer had no options, no ability to fight back, no players union, no NFL signing bonus, and none of the perks and support systems, formal and otherwise, in place for professional athletes.</p>
<p>Jon Martin could have defended himself, he chose not to. Good for him. But why didn’t anyone defend the trainer? He was powerless. This guy was subject to racial slurs on a repeated basis and not one person stood up to defend him. The coaches? Players (including Jon Martin)? Management? Shameful.</p>
<p>Not sure why the pervasive, public, blatant racism directed at the trainer is not the big story. </p>
<p>Has Martin had problems with literally every team he’s been on? Incognito has. Does Martin have a history of suspensions (Nebraska), released before ever being played (Oregon), most personal fouls in the league (St.Louis), death threats against a teammate (Miami), and being named by other NFL-ers as 2009’s “Dirtiest Player of the Year”? Not to mention assorted assault charges, league fines, spitting on other players, and other bits of evidence demonstrating what a fine human being he is? Incognito does.</p>
<p>You may or may not like the way Martin responded to the abuse, but you cannot deny that Incognito was the perpetrator. It’s really beyond my comprehension that anyone would defend this piece of human garbage.</p>
<p>Emm1–sometimes we agree on things; sometimes we don’t–either way, it always seems like a reasonable disagrreement. but I am flabbergasted by your posts in this thread. But I think LasMa’s post above puts things in better perspective than I could.</p>