<p>I must say that I am stunned by the reactions to my posts. Despite my repeated, explicit statements to the contrary, people are responding as if I were defending Richie Incognito. None of my comments have been directed at Incognito’s behavior. But Jonathan Martin also had choices (a point that is also made in the Wells report–a report which, I repeat, was prepared by a person that you might expect to be sympathetic to Martin.) and the choices that he made are relevant evidence in the personnel decisions that are to be made by the other GMs in the league–GMs of teams that owe Jonathan Martin nothing. While I would be willing to give long odds that Martin will never play another down in the league, I can understand people disagreeing with that assessment. But for the life of me, I can’t see why people find that assessment so offensive.</p>
<p>To me it is offensive because you seem to be suggesting that because Jonathan Martin went public with the abuse that he’s not a fit compatriot for other locker rooms. It seems like blaming the victim. </p>
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<p>No one is claiming that GMs of the other 31 teams owe him anything. However, it may be an overreach to say that all 31 other teams have a locker room culture as dysfunctional, and team leadership (coaches/GMs/players) as weak as that of the Dolphins.</p>
<p>You are leaving out some very important parts of the story. Based upon undisputed facts, Martin never said anything to Incognito that suggested that he found Incognito’s behavior offensive and instead at times acted in a way which affirmatively suggested that he was not only comfortable with the behavior but found it amusing. Against that background, without any warning, he went public in a way that implicitly condemned not only Incognito himself but also the entire Dolphins locker room. Not surprising that people in other locker rooms would be looking over their shoulders if he was brought into their locker room–particularly in view of the fact that as the comments on this list demonstrate, “right thinking” people now consider Martin untouchable because of his exalted victim status.</p>
<p>Seems to me that it was Incognito’s responsibility to not harass Martin. Period.</p>
<p>Your comments sound a lot like attributing fault to a rape victim because she didn’t fight back. </p>
<p>YMMV.</p>
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<p>I have to say I am stunned that you are stunned. REALLY?!</p>
<p>I’m not sure what YMMV means. Is it a second inapt and offensive analogy? But in any event, one thing should be clear–your position and that of the other like-minded posters is that because Martin was initially the aggrieved party, no one is ever allowed to draw negative inferences from anything that he does in response. If that is what you actually believe, believe away.</p>
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<p>Ndamukong Suh has been fined over $200K. He has been named dirtiest player in the NFL and the least liked. So how does Detroit treat him? He was team captain. Maybe Detroit will take Incognito and make him team co-captain.</p>
<p>YMMV == Your Mileage May Vary
Pretty standard message board abbreviation – </p>
<p>to say that Martin was going along with and joking with Incognito to makes it seem like he was okay with I’s behavior seems like stunning obtuseness to how victimizing behavior works–of COURSE he was trying to make friendly with I–he was hoping it would get the bullying to stop. Jeez, I’ve been there, as have thousands of others. If you don’t get that, no wonder you don’t get why others don’t see M’s timidness as a sign that something is wrong with HIM, rather than he’s trying to get away from the bullying behavior of I.</p>
<p>Maybe I don’t spend as much time on message boards as you do. For Nsrb4 and the rest of you, I’ll tell you what’s striking to me about this discussion. I’ve seen a lot of inflammatory analogies and personal attacks but I haven’t seen a single person make a reasoned response to any of the following points:</p>
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<li><p>No other GM owes Jonathan Martin anything.</p></li>
<li><p>Because of the totality his response to the abuse, players in other locker rooms are likely to have a very negative reaction to the idea of having Jonathan Martin as a comrade in arms.</p></li>
<li><p>Because of this reaction and the fact that he has not shown himself to be a particularly accomplished NFL player, the likelihood that bringing in Martin will materially improve a team is greatly reduced.</p></li>
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<p>And if you can’t refute any of those points, you can’t make a case for a GM bringing Martin in. Period. </p>
<p>And by the way Nsrb4, what I was stunned about was the fact that people consistently accused me of defending what Incognito did in the face of explicit statements to the contrary in earlier posts.</p>
<p>When Michael Sam told Gary pinkel, mu’s coach that he was gay, they called a team meeting, discussed it and fostered a feeling of family in the locker room. They had each other’s backs. This was in August and mr. Sam told the world earlier this month. Funny how different these locker rooms were. I think bullying is a horrible thing, no matter if it occurs in a classroom, office, football field, or church. People who bully can be stopped. It takes groups of people to stand up to them. It is just no one wants to be the first to say something against the bully, as they know they could be the next target. I thoroughly admire those who step up first. It’s a shame no one in Miami had the character trait. A greater shame the coach’s didn’t.</p>
<p>EMM, teams which tolerate the kind of behavior which Miami tolerated won’t touch Martin with a ten-foot pole, you’re undoubtedly right about that. Teams which insist on a respectful atmosphere have nothing to fear from his presence.</p>
<p>Missouri came out of nowhere to be one of the surprise teams of the year. It seems Sams coming out unified the locker room and lead to superior results. Maybe NFL execs should consider that.</p>
<p>Martin will be invited to a camp and if he is good enough he will make the team. If he is not he will be cut.</p>
<p>“We can agree that, by the standards of society at large, Richie Incognito and his buddies mistreated Jonathan Martin by verbally abusing him. How did Martin react? According to p. 35 of the Wells report “Incognito claimed that Martin never suggested his troubles related to his treatment by his teammates–a fact that Martin did not dispute.” Now, given their complicated relationship we will never know whether asking Incognito to stop would have done any good. We do know that rather than talking to anyone related to the team, Martin decided to hire a lawyer and go to the media.”</p>
<p>So? It’s beyond bizarre that you think such actions are wrong or condemnation-worthy. How stupid would you have to be to think that you could just say, “Aww, Richie, that hurts my feelings, knock it off” and expect Incognito to say, “Oops, I’m sorry. Never mind! Now let’s go out for a pizza.” </p>
<p>The only people who would have a “negative reaction” to the idea of a bullied person hiring a lawyer / going to the media are the kind of people who have something to hide. </p>
<p>EMM1, there are all kinds of odd people on these boards, with all kinds of odd views, and some of them you wonder how they make it through the day, but I have to say, I am totally flabbergasted by your posts.</p>
<p>BTW, no one ever said any other GM “owes” Jonathan Martin anything. So that’s a complete straw man.</p>
<p>tom, on reflection I think that is a plausible possibility (although I can still see some downsides from the team’s perspective). I simply hadn’t focused on the fact that the team could provide a preseason tryout with relatively low costs. If Martin is offered such an opportunity, it will be interesting to see if he really wants to continue pursuing a pro football career. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl, trying to talk to you about this would be useless. Have a good day.</p>
<p>I suspect that the “stunning” reaction you are getting, EMM1, has nothing to do with what a GM does or does not owe Martin (agree it’s a straw man), but with your vigorous victim blaming.</p>