<p><a href=“Robin Williams: Depression Alone Rarely Causes Suicide - Scientific American”>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/robin-williams-depression-alone-rarely-causes-suicide/</a></p>
<p>Churchmusicmom, you should be proud of your kid and it looks like there is some cool research happening. </p>
<p>@Flossy - That article quotes a 2006 interview. The interview I am talking about was in the late 80s or early 90s. Interesting. Wonder which story that he is telling is the true one. I get the feeling there is more here to found out. In either case, it is a sad thing because he clearly had serious demons.</p>
<p>I also have a much better understanding of depression now and also no longer label it as a selfish act. I appreciate all the information that is now available. It is a very sad state to suffer like that. </p>
<p>I have a friend who is bipolar and was in a low low place and planned her suicide. Fortunately she was able to recognize somehow that she was not thinking clearly and called her husband. She struggles daily. </p>
<p>I agree with the thoughts about suicide being ‘selfish’, I understand why the loved ones and people who cared about the person who commits suicide would feel that, it is anger and grief talking, but it is not a selfish act, because as others have posted, it isn’t a rational act, it isn’t logical, and the illness that often drives it takes away the ability to see with an outside perspective. I have battled depression, and I know what it feels like, and yes, at times I have had brief thoughts of suicide, but the difference was my depression was relatively mild, and I was able to grasp the consequences, what it would mean especially to my wife and child, so I never ever came close, but I also can say when in the initial throes of those feelings, it feels ‘right’, there was no concept of the consequences. A selfish act is when someone knows the consequences to others, and still goes forward, when someone is in a trough where they actually can go through it, that control isn’t there. </p>
<p>The other thing I have noticed with suicide is that ‘spontaneous’ suicide isn’t that someone just decided to do it, but rather that they were good at hiding it. Observationally (from people I have known or known of who committed suicide) and from what I have read, there are those who openly talk about suicide, are very visible about it, and we assume that these are the people planning it, but what my impression is those are people who still have some sense of not wanting to do it, and being visible about it is often how they are trying to get help. One of the things I remember reading is that with suicide it is very different with men and women, that men are a lot more likely to succeed with a suicide attempt than a women is, and one of the theories I have read is that women in that position tend to still be in the mode where there is something trying to stop them…(note, I don’t claim that is true, it is just something I remember reading). </p>
<p>There are a lot of factors around suicide, a friend of mine’s partner was a Phd student in genetic counseling, which is a lot more than dealing with genetic diseases, if I understood her. In any event, one of the things that genetic research has uncovered is that there is a trait of resiliency tied to genetics that plays a role in this, someone can be massively depressed, had a hard run of things, and their resiliency trait makes suicide difficult to impossible for them, another person can face what others would consider mild depression or setbacks, and be able to follow through. What she taught me explains why my wife, who had a very dark path to adulthood, came through it with scars but also did it without turning to drugs or alcohol or thoughts of suicide, while other people who faced a lot less than she did, succumbed. I think what I would say is that trying to find simple ideas about suicide, that it is because someone was a coward and couldn’t face life, were selfish, were this, were that, like any simple explanation ends up as judgement, rather than realizing that human beings are complex, sometimes fragile,. beings, who while laughing might be experience great pain, while the person who appears morose and cynical is actually the more stable of the two…and that if anyone takes this path, we should be saddened, both for the person who deprived themselves of life and others their presence. Very rarely can I think of hearing of a suicide, other than maybe a monster like a Hitler or some kind of dirtbag, where I don’t feel compassion for the person doing it and the people they left behind. </p>
<p>Stuart Goddard, AKA Adam Ant, described his mental illness as being so difficult to diagnose because all the usual hallmarks of the manic state are the job description of being a rock start (or other performer in Robin Williams’case). While he had been anorexic and made a suicide attempt at 21 and was famously manic, it wasn’t until he was much older that he was diagnosed and committed involuntarily at first for mental health treatment. He is now very public about dealing with depression and finding a medication balance.</p>
<p>From an interview in the last several years . . .</p>
<p>“I was in a very bad state of mind. But you don’t walk into a doctor’s surgery and say I’m nuts – and if you do, they just fill you with antidepressants which just turn you into a Tellytubby. Antidepressants are very good, but it’s a clinical cosh, really. Sometimes you have to be knocked out, just to stop; when you’re in that state all you want to do is just sleep, and rest your body and your brain. But being on antidepressants, if you’re not careful you can just be sitting on the couch looking at daytime TV, eating and doing nothing at all.” Which is pretty much what he did for the next four years. “And I didn’t enjoy it.”</p>
<p>Ant talks quite openly about his mental illness, but seems unresolved about medication; he knows he’s not well, but the drugs that stabilize his mind also anaesthetize his creativity, and if that is the price he must pay for sanity, he’s not sure if it is worth it. When I ask if he is taking medication at the moment, he pauses before answering. “No. But I can if I want to, if I have the warning signs, and I know the warning signs, I can go and get them.”</p>
<p>What would be a familiar warning sign? “Well, the trouble is, when you look at the list: sexual promiscuity, spending loads of money, flamboyant behavior – well, that describes every rock’n’roll star I can think of. That comes with my profession. So it’s very difficult to know.”</p>
<p>jym626 makes an important part about the most lethal time being when depression is starting to lift. Depression can be so deep that a person can’t even function or care enough to make the effort to kill themselves. Once that begins to lift, not only do they recognize how low they were, but they are still quite depressed but have the capacity to plan and follow through. When I worked on psych units, we also paid particular attention to someone who suddenly seemed happier because sometimes they were happier because they figured out their plan and knew it was going to end soon. </p>
<p>A lot of the research churchmusicmom is talking about could explain why they’ve found electroshock treatment to be very effective with the extremely clinically depressed. While it was once used in a rather haphazard way for all kinds of psychosis, they use it now in a much more controlled and effective for depression that has been unresponsive to anything else. </p>
<p>I think it’s important to note too- there is situational depression, like bereavement or which results from PTSD and there is depression which is really due to chemical imbalances and differences in how the brain is functioning. They are important distinctions. I cried a lot after my mom passed away and a co-worker suggested I might anti depressants. I rejected the idea because it was very early in the bereavement stages and it is actually healthy to cry and mourn at those phases. If it had lasted more than 6 months or interfered with my ability to take care of basic needs for me and my kids, I would have sought treatment. Sometimes our society is quick to want a diagnosis and a medication for something that is just normal. </p>
<p>@awcntdb They could all be true. In the 80’s and 90’s he was doing a lot of cocaine, like everyone else in Hollywood at the time. He had many bouts in rehab for varying issues and addictions. He didn’t hide any of this and it was very visible in his early work. I thought he was a wonderful dramatic actor in later years but personally found most of his manic comedy a little disturbing. Same thing with Andy Kaufman. It was obvious illness and always felt a little like laughing an upcoming a train wreck. </p>
<p>@Flossy - From that interview I saw, he actually said he stopped cocaine cold turkey in '82 after his friend Jim Beluschi overdosed on it. Williams said he never went back to cocaine again after that. But he was doing something obviously.</p>
<p>Mork used cocaine heavily. I don’t know what year that was but it made him a star. It’s easy to understand why he felt he needed substances to be “on”.</p>
<p>Edit to add - Okay, it was the 70’s and 80’s. He also acknowledged and joked about his alcoholism. </p>
<p><a href=“Robin Williams Battled Demons for Decades Before His Death”>http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/robin-williams-death/robin-williams-battled-demons-decades-his-death-n178271</a></p>
<p>Transcranial magnetic stimulation has also had positive effects for some patients. Several years ago there was a study being done at McLean hospital and as part of it the participants had to have MRIs. Apparently the MRI machine had a particularly strong magnet, IIRC, and the study participants reported improvement in mood from the MRIs. Gotta love those spurious findings. </p>
<p>One of the more interesting fields of study is looking at creativity and mental illness of various sorts, that genius (especially in the arts) often seems to be tied to people who may be suffering from mental illness. There have been suggestions that the creativity might flourish because the illness they had, that often keeps someone from having rational control over certain things, allows them freedom that a person not ill would not have. If you read the life story of composers in classical music, it always stands out to me when they describe someone as being balanced, a good family person, etc (and yes, they existed!)…the mania (Mendelsohn literally worked himself to death), the irrascibility (Beethoven), neuroses (Tchaikovsky) and so forth, stand out…it isn’t surprising, too, that people like Adam Ant or Williams or others suffering from some sort of illness get involved with drugs or alcohol, it is an attempt at self medication, and as Adam Ant pointed out, one of the problems with anti depressants and other drugs used to treat mental illness is in taking the edge off of depression or whatever, it often kills the creativity, too. I know from my own experience with anti depressants (and I was on a pediatric dose!) was that it left me a zombie, it was much better to deal with the depression than the medications, so I can understand what they mean, albeit on a much more minor scale. </p>
<p>I was always uncomfortable watching him improvise when it was obvious to me he was manic and everyone around him just laughed and clapped. I much preferred his serious acting roles because of it. I still found him very touching, but I feel like I was the only person who didn’t like the comedy.</p>
<p>I felt similar., the manic moments, especially when he was obviously on cocaine or other things, made me nervous for some reason. I was always concerned he would crash, like watching a speeding train. My favorite movies were Good Will Hunting, Dead Poet Society and Awakenings, loved him in serious roles even more than comedy.</p>
<p>I guess I’m less perceptive than others. It never occurred to me to think of drugs or mania as the source of his humor. I just thought he was brilliant.</p>
<p>Now that I know, I feel too guilty to watch the improvisations. I also loved his serious roles, and I’ll focus on them.</p>
<p>I was listening to a local NPR call in program yesterday on suicide and depression and one of the callers - a woman in her late 50’s who had been battling clinical depression for 40 years or so - described her attempts as completely spontaneous. That the idea would just pop into her head and she would just act on it. She said in her mind in just made sense. I did not listen to the whole show because I was running errands so this was the only part I heard. </p>
<p>If anyone is interested and wants to listen: </p>
<p><a href=“http://wamc.org/post/open-forum-suicide-and-depression”>http://wamc.org/post/open-forum-suicide-and-depression</a></p>
<p>Nice statement from his daughter, the ending referring to some negativity made me smile:
<a href=“http://zeldawilliams.■■■■■■■■■■/post/94586234216/my-family-has-always-been-private-about-our-time”>http://zeldawilliams.■■■■■■■■■■/post/94586234216/my-family-has-always-been-private-about-our-time</a></p>
<p>I love what she said about his gentle soul. I always got that sense. </p>
<p>New movies to be released.
<a href=“Robin Williams: Six new movies he left behind”>http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/moviesnow/la-et-mn-robin-williams-dies-new-movies-release-dates-20140811-story.html</a></p>
<p>Depression is not “demons”.
It can be a major chronic illness.
You can’t will yourself to get better, anymore than someone with diabetes or cancer can control their illness with their mind.</p>