<p>The press conference this morning got pretty uncomfortable. He had real problems. It’s still sad. </p>
<p>I recommend for anyone who is truly a fan, to see what some consider his best movie–What Dreams May Come. Not a comedy, not light at all. Visually beautiful, spiritual, touching, themes of love and sacrifice.</p>
<p>But be prepared to cry…especially now.</p>
<p>There is a chicken/egg thing going on here is seems. Drugs, divorce, financial issues and work difficulties can be a symptom of deep, clinical depression. It sounds as if Flossy is blaming the depression on the money woes and divorce. To paraphrase William Styron from his great memoir, Darkness Visible: If someone had a visible physical illness of the same magnitude of some cases of depression they would be ensconced in the hospital hooked up to tubes and nobody would doubt their illness or just tell them to smile or take a walk to feel better.</p>
<p>definition: <a href=“SPONTANEOUS | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary”>http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/spontaneous</a> “happening naturally, without planning or encouragement”</p>
<p>People don’t commonly kill themselves over a “bad moment”.</p>
<p>No, that’s not what I said at all. Chicken and egg, yes. A bad moment? Unlikely.</p>
<p>No, flossy, you didn’t mention a “bad moment”. That was said upthread by someone else. Suggesting it was “just a bad moment” seems to trivialize his suicide, IMO. Sorry for the confusion.</p>
<p>But nowI am confused- did you say chicken and egg or did saintfan? </p>
<p>Saintfan, said chicken and egg first, I think. I agreed. But now I’m not at all sure we mean the same thing, either.</p>
<p>To clarify - I was not blaming the depression on drugs, divorce, and money woes. I have no idea what sent him on a downward spiral and I don’t think we ever are going to know for sure. But, he was on one and that’s very clear. Marilu Henner worked with him on “The Crazy Ones” a few months ago. She said he was in the best shape of his life and the set was one of the happiest ever. This is him June 29th at rehab. He looks dramatically different. </p>
<p><a href=“http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/590x/robin-williams-last-photo-498441.jpg”>http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/590x/robin-williams-last-photo-498441.jpg</a></p>
<p>This is all so sad and all the discussions around the internet just serve to highlight the complexity of depression, I think.</p>
<p>A friend yesterday posted a link to a blog that raised the notion that suicide victims are making a choice at the time they commit that act…and that all the phrases being tossed around such as “lost the battle with depression” or “he’s at peace”, stand to either discourage or frighten people currently dealing with depression OR (in the latter instance) glorify or encourage the idea of ending ones life. The author of the blog goes on to characterize the act of committing suicide as ultimately selfish in that those left behind suffer tremendously. </p>
<p>My daughter is working on her PhD in neuroscience and she conducts research at the cellular level on an area of the brain thought to be directly involved with depression and anxiety (side note: she actually did a research internship at Columbia with Dr. Mann, mentioned upthread). She had real issues with that blog post, and what she wrote in response to it was fascinating to me. </p>
<p>She said that while it’s true that the act of killing oneself could be characterized literally as “selfish”, the disease of depression actually takes AWAY (in many but not all cases) the ability to think outside oneself. Here is how she said it: “…from what I understand*, depression is a disease that makes you incapable of not being selfish. Your brain is locked in a holding pattern of constant introspection and self-loathing. You are not able to appreciate the good or maybe even the bad things that are happening around you because you can’t switch your focus to the outside world. So yes, committing suicide is selfish, but not because you don’t care what happens to your loved ones, but because you can’t care. Because your brain can’t physically break out of that holding pattern.”</p>
<p>She went on to say that there is research going on which investigates the use of deep brain stimulation to treat depression. She said that one of the common threads that people for whom this treatment is successful express is this idea of "… suddenly being aware of the outside world once the stimulation was turned on. One patient even commented on how she never realized how loud her kids are until after she had had the treatment. Thankfully, the brain stimulation for these patients was able to pull the brain out of the introspective, depressed holding pattern and into a normal pattern, allowing the patients to experience the outside world and a full range of emotions. "</p>
<p>Any way, I found all of this info to be enlightening as I was one who pretty much did think of suicide as being a “selfish” act. I suppose that is one reason Robin Williams’ doing it shocked me so much. He is the antithesis of a “selfish” person. At least this has made ME really reconsider my viewpoint. I hope it has done the same for others as well. </p>
<p>^^ I recall from years ago that he was bipolar and on meds and would actually stop taking his meds before shows to be even funnier. That fast talking and speedy comedy was not by training or an act, per se; that was him off his meds. His depression was lifelong. </p>
<p>^^^^I certainly could never have said it so eloquently as your daughter, but I’ve often said similar things to people who make the “selfish” argument, particularly the ones who use it to say that as a result, they have no sympathy for the one who commits suicide. It seems to me to be patently unfair to hold someone who is seriously clinically depressed to the same standards of logic, rationale, and understanding of consequences which would be expected of someone with a healthy mind. Someone that depressed is not in their right mind, so why would we expect them to behave as if they are?</p>
<p>I had some situational depression when the young man whom I’d dated for six years died tragically when I was 21. I was on an airplane, and I had the thought that if the plane crashed, I truly wouldn’t care. I came out of that and don’t recall ever going through a dark period like that since. I now have such compassion for people who suffer from chronic, debilitating depression. Just that little glimpse I had makes me realize just how much more of it is possible that I can’t be capable of understanding. It must be horrific to feel like that much of the time; particularly with people who have their good periods-they must know in the back of their minds that the darkness is coming back, and that would be beyond terrifying, I would think. </p>
<p>This celebrity death has saddened me like no other.</p>
<p>Churchmusicmom, great post.</p>
<p>I would add that for many people who struggle with depression and attempt or die by suicide, they feel as though their existence is a burden to their loved ones, and that suicide is the only way to relieve that burden. Truly a heartbreaking thing.</p>
<p>^^^^Yes, that’s really true. They don’t think they will be ruining their loved ones’ lives, they think those people will be better off without them. </p>
<p>This one hit me very hard also. Dead Poets Society was a very impactful movie for me. This scene- What will your verse be?
<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube;
<p>And this one, especially meaningful now: Carpe Diem <a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube;
<p>I’d say, he did it. He made his live extraordinary. </p>
<p>O Captain My Captain- <a href=“O'Captain my Captain - YouTube”>O'Captain my Captain - YouTube;
<p>And the movie Awakenings was powerful too.</p>
<p>Agree on the great description by churchmusicmom’s daughter. It has always bothered me when people said it was a selfish act for those very reasons. </p>
<p>I saw that people are doing their own tributes to him by taking photos of themselves standing on a desk.
That’s so very touching.</p>
<p>I said chicken and egg. I am of the belief that in most cases (maybe impulsive teen, controlling murder/suicide spouse and severe PTSD aside) the mental illness and/or clinical depression can lead to symptomatic chemical dependency, marital issues, financial issues etc. Many people see the opposite, “Oh, he must have killed himself because he had financial issues pressing in on him.” I don’t see potential looming bankruptcy or a cancelled tv show as a reason that someone would end their life in most cases. In this case to me they definitely seem just like an outward manifestation of his inward turmoil and pain.</p>
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<p>Research has also indicated that a very lethal time is when a person’s depression is beginning to lift, and they are re-energized enough to act on their thoughts. They are beginning to feel better and remember how awful the lowest of the lows felt, and do not want to go back there. This happened to my roommate’s mother when we were in grad school. Truly awful.</p>
<p>Thanks for the positive feedback. I am pretty proud of my kid and it’s encouraging that there is research going to to diagnose and treat this (these) disease(s) at the cellular level. Another researcher in her lab is doing her thesis on seeing if fMRI scans of patients can predict the treatment outcome-- the idea being that one day, we could find the best treatment for an individual patient faster using fMRI or other measures. </p>
<p>The clinical psych guy involved in the discussion described what we are now largely having to do (in diagnosing and treating mental illness) as being like deciding what is wrong with a car engine purely by listening to how it sounds. I thought that was a great analogy. </p>
<p>About 25 years ago I had a bout of deep clinical depression. Thank goodness I had no comorbidities of PTSD, substance issues, bi-polar or other things. I vividly remember being afraid that I might almost accidentally kill myself. I guess you would call that suicidal ideation which I think many people don’t recognize can be totally independent from an actual death wish. I remember being afraid to drive over the bridge to the point where I stopped doing it unless absolutely necessary. Thankfully it scared me enough to seek treatment which was successful. My depression bout was not entrenched and long standing and, as I said, no other related issues so treatment was effective. I remember one night, though, gripping the wheel and using all my energy to focus on the lane ahead of me crossing the bridge. I felt as if I might steer over the side if I lost focus for even one moment. </p>
<p>In the interview transcript that jym posted a caller said just that - the energy of fighting her suicidal tendencies was exhausting.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for sharing that insight, sf. I am so glad you are okay now. </p>